Load Google Translate Hi there,
There are several posts on the Internet from people who claim to have found the energy 'holy grail'. Meaning machines which convert energy from one form the another without loss or even with energy gain. What do we do which such claims as there is no one who has produced a machine that is in normal use somewhere by someone.
Personally i am strong non-believer of free energy devices, as they seem to contradict the law's of physicsas as we know them.
Please share your idea's and comments on this topic.
Best regards,
Enrico Migchels
Hi,
-This is my first topic so I hope I won't make mistake.
I strongly agree with you, but sometime it's possible to "harvest" a small quantity of energy that can be used to produce energy. For example it is possible (and it's quite simple) to use a Peltier cell to convert heat into electricity. Some years ago I've built a very simple circuit that can power a LED with a small Peltier cell (40x40) and the heat of my body. Now I'm looking on Tesla generator that sems to be able to harvest energy field and produce a very small quantity of energy (mW) that could be use with sensor network.
I've read something about Bruce De Palma but I think it N-machine ca not work.
The REAL WAY TO "PRODUCE" ENERGY IS TO REDUCE THE WASTE OF ENERGY or TO CONVERT "USELESS" ENERGY (Heat, wind, sun, electomagnetic fields).
Hi!
Hey, new to this, but very interested in converting heat to electricity!
Can you explain the theory behind a pelcier cell? I'm having a little trouble finding anyone to explain it to me, it seems like an amazing technology though that could possibly revolutionize technology!
Thanks ahead of time ![]()
I'm not sure I can be clear. It's about the kinematic energy due at thermal energy. More is the thermal energy and more is the kinematic energy that all the electrons have. If, in a diode (the peltie cell is like a big diode), an electron has sufficent energy can "jump" the potential barrier becomes "free" and can be used.
Appropriately doping and sizing the junction you can have sufficent electrons and the potential barrier.
I hope it clear... but ask for any question!
Hi!
I've talked to a few of our suppliers recently and energy harvesting is a big topic for them. Linear Technology, TI and Microchip all have solutions to collect and store energy from natural phenomenom like heat, light and vibration. The circuits consist of a collector such as a solar panel, conversion and a storage battery. Sometimes the circuits have a supplemental battery.
The suppliers are claiming that these circuits can power an sensor, MCU and a Zigbee type measurement node for ten years and upwards.
But I think you may be referring to cold fusion type circuits, which many invertors claim to have made. All these claims have proved impossible to replicate under controlled conditions. It is a fascinating subject and I watched a great show on it once
Hi,
Energy harvesting is indeed interesting and well understood. Look for example to solar energy. The sun produces around 1300W/m^2 of which 1000W/m^2 reaches the ground. We are able to convert 20% of the energy to electricity with the best PV-cells available. That's 200W!. The backdraw of this is the technology behind the conversion. Traditionally you would need a solar charger and battery storage device and inverter to make use of the energy. Lot's of converters, lot's of losses, lot's of money spent. The modern way of converting the solar energy is to pump it directly (via 1 boost/inverter stage) into the grid. You need the support of your electricity company to do this. For stand-alone application solar energy is nice, could even be cheaper than connecting to the grid (if the grid is not there yet) but you have to oversize the solar panel enormous to have sufficient energy the whole year round. As the winter time is really a problem for the energy harvesting (energy output may reduce to 10% of the nominal value) the system becomes relative expensive. I would say: focus on the application and make a overall efficient system. Most energy is wasted in the application. I thing is clear: if you build a solar application you MUST consider all aspects of the system and finetune each component for optimal performance. If not, your customer is disappointed. There are a lot of those around as several solar products have very poor performance. Engineers have to be educated about the do's and don't of solar technology. If not the general public will turn there back on solar products. Or: who want a solar energy driven flashlight? :-)
Best regards, Enrico Migchels
In applications I have used solar, it's been that they are either off the grid or just require power intermittantly. Then it's usually the storage device that limits its use. One problem is that at higher latitudes, the use may be more when the nights are longer, and the weather worse, so you can end up with having to over specify the solar input side to get the required energy into the system. Solar powered lighting for the Developing World is a real application, as it reduces their reliance on such as kerosene for lighting and has obvious safety advantages.
don't need, ask the goverment for ur solar panel support, then pay some
for yourself, few years later, you get true free energy.
With this kind of "application" it's very important the "insurance": inverters are very fragile and after few years can broken. If you have some problems and you have to change some pannels you may not be able to install the same kind (ame voltage and current) of pannel: so the performance of you system can become very low due to the "incompatibility" of the new pannels. For example: you have a system of 7 pannels and if, after 10 years, you have to change a pannel moving from In=10A to In=5A, all the system can erogate 5A at maximum...
If you have to change the inverter you have to wait for the new one: In "my" system I had to wait for a month... so the system was down for a month and it was not able to produce energy and money.
I call that "TRUE LIFE"...
And, as last... WE pay the goverment: so WE pay for solar energy... I'm not sure we can call the Solar energy as "free energy".
I think that solar energy it's usefull only with small and distribuite applications.
I find the EuroDish stirling generators quite interesting, as they use a parabolic mirror to concentrate light onto a small chamber which inturn heats water that drives a stirling engine, however this system also has flaws mainly in cost and maintainence. I think it would be neat if we could convert existing fossil fuel plants, which burn fuels to generate steam and so drive turbines, to instead generate steam using geothermal energy of the earth. As far as free energy goes (as in free for me) I have used static generators before to power small sensors with moderatly good results, luckly I'm near a TV transmission tower.
You asked how a Peltier theromoelectic device works.
The 40x40 mm device mentioned contains a zigzig path for electricity.
The trick is that all of the 'up' pillars are made of a p-type semiconductor and all of the 'down' pillars in the zigzag are made of an n-type semiconductor. Metal tracks printed on the white topplate and bottom plate link p to n.
If heat flows from one plate to the other, it is carried mainly by holes in the p-type pillars and mainly by electrons in the n-type pillars. These have vastly different momentum, possibly of opposite direction, so net current has to flow in order to maintain a temperature difference across the cell.
I'd like to go into it in more detail. There is an academic at Cardiff uni who looked at these properly.
It is interesting that anything hot stuck onto one side of a Peltier cell can generate electricity while there is cold on one plate and hot on the other. For example an engine coolant on the hot side and a fan-cooled plate on the other.
It is still a machine so don't expect to drive an electric car solely from electricity generated from cooling the batteries of that electric car.
I agree that you could never get more energy than what was inputed. If this was true that person would be one rich person. I am also a big camper and found a company that produces a cook top that also allows you to charge a device while cooking. The company is called BioLite.
Technically, the Sun outputs much more energy than we could ever use without cost to produce.
The real issue is collecting and using energy from a variety of sources where the cost to collect and distribute falls within an economical zone.
We just need to get more creative in developing methods to capture the abundant "Free" energy around us.
Just my Opinion,
DAB
Absolutely! There is enough thermal energy bombarding the earth daily, to provide all our enegy needs.
.. If only we could capture it!
The focus has always been to 'intercept' the thermal 'flow' and do work in the process - one has (say) a parabolic reflector focussing onto a boiler, and vent the boiling steam through a turbine.. this effectively allows the heat to do work (turn the turbine, the mechanical resistance of which is determined by the load, which is where the useful work is done) and the heat is disipated (goes more entropic, is defocussed, more spread out) according to the natural order of the universe.
The "trouble" with this scheme (and, for that matter, every scheme [including peltier] which relied on thermal difference) is that loads of potential energy which could be captured must be lost.
What we need, is some 'collector' which 'sucks' thermal energy from its 'substrate' , converts this to electrical energy which does work 'remotely' and causes cooling of the 'substrate' as a 'byproduct' ... Such a collector would collect more incedent thermal energy because it would be cold and non-radiating, it would not require any 'sink' to provide differential temperature, because the load it is driving would effectively be the 'sink'.
What I think we need is some way to rectify and collect the thermal noise found in all conductors / semiconductors, and to do this in a way which causes actual molecular / atomic movement / vibrations to be reduced in this process, therebye causing cooling.
I have been "working" on this for years but am not getting anywhere - simply dont have funds or a lab capable of the other disciplines required to really test the hypothesis - in particular, chemistry and manafacturing of specific semiconductor substrates etc is needed - using ready made semiconductor parts and materials doesnt give what I am looking for - or at least, doesnt give enough that I can measure it!
Of course - I may be completely mad! ;-)
Fred
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