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May 1, 2010 12:25 PM

Free energy?

Hi there,

 

There are several posts on the Internet from people who claim to have found the energy 'holy grail'. Meaning machines which convert energy from one form the another without loss or even with energy gain. What do we do which such claims as there is no one who has produced a machine that is in normal use somewhere by someone.

 

Personally i am strong non-believer of free energy devices, as they seem to contradict the law's of physicsas as we know them.

 

Please share your idea's and comments on this topic.

 

Best regards,

 

Enrico Migchels

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    1. Aug 29, 2010 3:01 PM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    Hi,

    -This is my first topic so I hope I won't make mistake.

     

    I strongly agree with you, but sometime it's possible to "harvest" a small quantity of energy that can be used to produce energy. For example it is possible (and it's quite simple) to use a Peltier cell to convert heat into electricity. Some years ago I've built a very simple circuit that can power a LED with a small Peltier cell (40x40) and the heat of my body. Now I'm looking on Tesla generator that sems to be able to harvest energy field and produce a very small quantity of energy (mW) that could be use with sensor network.

     

    I've read something about Bruce De Palma but I think it N-machine ca not work.

     

    The REAL WAY TO "PRODUCE" ENERGY IS TO REDUCE THE WASTE OF ENERGY or TO CONVERT "USELESS" ENERGY (Heat, wind, sun, electomagnetic fields).

     

    Hi!

  • Currently Being Moderated
    2. Oct 29, 2010 12:17 PM (in response to morpheo81)
    Re: Free energy?

    Hey, new to this, but very interested in converting heat to electricity!

    Can you explain the theory behind a pelcier cell? I'm having a little trouble finding anyone to explain it to me, it seems like an amazing technology though that could possibly revolutionize technology!

     

    Thanks ahead of time

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    3. Nov 2, 2010 2:48 PM (in response to superbenjiman12)
    Re: Free energy?

    I'm not sure I can be clear. It's about the kinematic energy due at thermal energy. More is the thermal energy and more is the kinematic energy that all the electrons have. If, in a diode (the peltie cell is like a big diode), an electron has sufficent energy can "jump" the potential barrier becomes "free" and can be used.
    Appropriately doping and sizing the junction you can have sufficent electrons and the potential barrier.
    I hope it clear... but ask for any question!
    Hi!

    I'm not sure I can be clear. It's about the kinematic energy due at thermal energy. More is the thermal energy and more is the kinematic energy that all the electrons have. If, in a diode (the peltie cell is like a big diode), an electron has sufficent energy can "jump" the potential barrier becomes "free" and can be used.

    Appropriately doping and sizing the junction you can have sufficent electrons and the potential barrier.

    I hope it clear... but ask for any question!

    Hi!

  • Currently Being Moderated
    4. Nov 3, 2010 5:12 AM (in response to morpheo81)
    Re: Free energy?

    I've talked to a few of our suppliers recently and energy harvesting is a big topic for them. Linear Technology, TI and Microchip all have solutions to collect and store energy from natural phenomenom like heat, light and vibration. The circuits consist of a collector such as a solar panel, conversion and a storage battery. Sometimes the circuits have a supplemental battery.

     

    The suppliers are claiming that these circuits can power an sensor, MCU and a Zigbee type measurement node for ten years and upwards.

     

    But I think you may be referring to cold fusion type circuits, which many invertors claim to have made. All these claims have proved impossible to replicate under controlled conditions. It is a fascinating subject and I watched a great show on it once

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    6. Nov 4, 2010 5:14 AM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    In applications I have used solar, it's been that they are either off the grid or just require power intermittantly. Then it's usually the storage device that limits its use. One problem is that at higher latitudes, the use may be more when the nights are longer, and the weather worse, so you can end up with having to over specify the solar input side to get the required energy into the system. Solar powered lighting for the Developing World is a real application, as it reduces their reliance on such as kerosene for lighting and has obvious safety advantages.

  • Currently Being Moderated
    7. Nov 4, 2010 1:23 PM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    For some applications (military) It is possible to use the seeback effect to produce energy that can be used for sensors. The thermal energy comes from the sun: the sensor is inside a rock (black?) which surfice become hot thanks to the solar energy. The thermal difference between the rock and the ground give enough energy to power the sensor.
    Where I work there are some different sistem: 3 geothermal sistems and 3 solar sistems (2 therma solar system and 1 photvoltaic system). The photovoltaic sistem it's about 19kWp and we sell the energy to the main company. Due to energy lost, we sell about 0,93 of the total energy that solar pannels can produce.
    It's very interesting to see what happen when rein or there are some clouds... the drop of power it's impressive.
    I hope think film pannel can allow to reduce the cost of the system that is too hight.
    I've founded some information about something called "Tesla's Antenna" that can convert "static energy" into electricity that can be used to power sensors. Someone has been tryed to build a Tesla generator?For some applications (military) It is possible to use the seeback effect to produce energy that can be used for sensors. The thermal energy comes from the sun: the sensor is inside a rock (black?) which surfice become hot thanks to the solar energy. The thermal difference between the rock and the ground give enough energy to power the sensor.
    Where I work there are some different sistem: 3 geothermal sistems and 3 solar sistems (2 therma solar system and 1 photvoltaic system). The photovoltaic sistem it's about 19kWp and we sell the energy to the main company. Due to energy lost, we sell about 0,93 of the total energy that solar pannels can produce.
    It's very interesting to see what happen when rein or there are some clouds... the drop of power it's impressive.
    I hope think film pannel can allow to reduce the cost of the system that is too hight.
    I've founded some information about something called "Tesla's Antenna" that can convert "static energy" into electricity that can be used to power sensors. Someone has been tryed to build a Tesla generator?
    For some applications (military) It is possible to use the seeback effect to produce energy that can be used for sensors. The thermal energy comes from the sun: the sensor is inside a rock (black?) which surfice become hot thanks to the solar energy. The thermal difference between the rock and the ground give enough energy to power the sensor.
    Where I work there are some different sistem: 3 geothermal sistems and 3 solar sistems (2 therma solar system and 1 photvoltaic system). The photovoltaic sistem it's about 19kWp and we sell the energy to the main company. Due to energy lost, we sell about 0,93 of the total energy that solar pannels can produce.
    It's very interesting to see what happen when rein or there are some clouds... the drop of power it's impressive.
    I hope think film pannel can allow to reduce the cost of the system that is too hight.
    I've founded some information about something called "Tesla's Antenna" that can convert "static energy" into electricity that can be used to power sensors. Someone has been tryed to build a Tesla generator?

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    8. Nov 5, 2010 4:36 PM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    don't need, ask the goverment for ur solar panel support, then pay some

    for yourself, few years later, you get true free energy.

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    9. Nov 6, 2010 4:27 AM (in response to shanez)
    Re: Free energy?

    With this kind of "application" it's very important the "insurance": inverters are very fragile and after few years can broken. If you have some problems and you have to change some pannels you may not be able to install the same kind (ame voltage and current) of pannel: so the performance of you system can become very low due to the "incompatibility" of the new pannels. For example: you have a system of 7 pannels and if, after 10 years, you have to change a pannel moving from In=10A to In=5A, all the system can erogate 5A at maximum...
    If you have to change the inverter you have to wait for the new one: In "my" system I had to wait for a month... so the system was down for a month and it was not able to produce energy and money.
    I call that "TRUE LIFE"...
    And, as last... WE pay the goverment: so WE pay for solar energy... I'm not sure we can call the Solar energy as "free energy".
    I think that solar energy it's usefull only with small and distribuite applications.

    With this kind of "application" it's very important the "insurance": inverters are very fragile and after few years can broken. If you have some problems and you have to change some pannels you may not be able to install the same kind (ame voltage and current) of pannel: so the performance of you system can become very low due to the "incompatibility" of the new pannels. For example: you have a system of 7 pannels and if, after 10 years, you have to change a pannel moving from In=10A to In=5A, all the system can erogate 5A at maximum...

    If you have to change the inverter you have to wait for the new one: In "my" system I had to wait for a month... so the system was down for a month and it was not able to produce energy and money.

     

    I call that "TRUE LIFE"...

     

    And, as last... WE pay the goverment: so WE pay for solar energy... I'm not sure we can call the Solar energy as "free energy".

     

    I think that solar energy it's usefull only with small and distribuite applications.

     

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    10. Dec 30, 2011 8:21 AM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    I find the EuroDish stirling generators quite interesting, as they use a parabolic mirror to concentrate light onto a small chamber which inturn heats water that drives a stirling engine, however this system also has flaws mainly in cost and maintainence. I think it would be neat if we could convert existing fossil fuel plants, which burn fuels to generate steam and so drive turbines, to instead generate steam using geothermal energy of the earth. As far as free energy goes (as in free for me) I have used static generators before to power small sensors with moderatly good results, luckly I'm near a TV transmission tower.

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    11. Mar 27, 2012 11:02 AM (in response to superbenjiman12)
    Re: Free energy?

    You asked how a Peltier theromoelectic device works.

    The 40x40 mm device mentioned contains a zigzig path for electricity.

    The trick is that all of the 'up' pillars are made of a p-type semiconductor and all of the 'down' pillars in the zigzag are made of an n-type semiconductor.  Metal tracks printed on the white topplate and bottom plate link p to n. 

    If heat flows from one plate to the other, it is carried mainly by holes in the p-type pillars and mainly by electrons in the n-type pillars.  These have vastly different momentum, possibly of opposite direction, so net current has to flow in order to maintain a temperature difference across the cell.

     

    I'd like to go into it in more detail.  There is an academic at Cardiff uni who looked at these properly.

    It is interesting that anything hot stuck onto one side of a Peltier cell can generate electricity while there is cold on one plate and hot on the other.  For example an engine coolant on the hot side and a fan-cooled plate on the other.

    It is still a machine so don't expect to drive an electric car solely from electricity generated from cooling the batteries of that electric car.

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    12. Apr 18, 2012 1:29 PM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    I agree that you could never get more energy than what was inputed.  If this was true that person would be one rich person.  I am also a big camper and found a company that produces a cook top that also allows you to charge a device while cooking.  The company is called BioLite.

  • Currently Being Moderated
    13. Apr 18, 2012 2:53 PM (in response to enrico.migchels)
    Re: Free energy?

    Technically, the Sun outputs much more energy than we could ever use without cost to produce.

     

    The real issue is collecting and using energy from a variety of sources where the cost to collect and distribute falls within an economical zone.

    We just need to get more creative in developing methods to capture the abundant "Free" energy around us.

     

    Just my Opinion,

    DAB

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    14. May 21, 2012 10:00 PM (in response to DAB)
    Re: Free energy?

    Absolutely! There is enough thermal energy bombarding the earth daily, to provide all our enegy needs.

    .. If only we could capture it!

    The focus has always been to 'intercept' the thermal 'flow' and do work in the process - one has (say) a parabolic reflector focussing onto a boiler, and vent the boiling steam through a turbine.. this effectively allows the heat to do work (turn the turbine, the mechanical resistance of which is determined by the load, which is where the useful work is done) and the heat is disipated (goes more entropic, is defocussed, more spread out) according to the natural order of the universe.

     

    The "trouble" with this scheme (and, for that matter, every scheme [including peltier] which relied on thermal difference) is that loads of potential energy which could be captured must be lost.

     

    What we need, is some 'collector' which 'sucks' thermal energy from its 'substrate' , converts this to electrical energy which does work 'remotely' and causes cooling of the 'substrate' as a 'byproduct' ... Such a collector would collect more incedent thermal energy because it would be cold and non-radiating, it would not require any 'sink' to provide differential temperature, because the load it is driving would effectively be the 'sink'.

     

    What I think we need is some way to rectify and collect the thermal noise found in all conductors / semiconductors, and to do this in a way which causes actual molecular / atomic movement / vibrations to be reduced in this process, therebye causing cooling.

     

    I have been "working" on this for years but am not getting anywhere - simply dont have funds or a lab capable of the other disciplines required to really test the hypothesis - in particular, chemistry and manafacturing of specific semiconductor substrates etc is needed - using ready made semiconductor parts and materials doesnt give what I am looking for - or at least, doesnt give enough that I can measure it!

     

    Of course - I may be completely mad!  ;-)

    Fred

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