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      • 315. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
        drkirkby

        CadSoft Guest wrote:


        One of the nice things about the EAGLE file format (since version 6 at

        least) is that it is easy to read. I've already written a program that

        opens an EAGLE file, reads it and can parse the XML. (I even posted a

        couple of my early experiments

        http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/m/156145/6f8dbdb16391f7c28db5b12f3dbae997/?srch=python#msg_156145.)

        If anything happens to EAGLE or Autodesk, we'll still be able to access

        our EAGLE files, if only to convert them to some other package.

        --

        EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

         

        Yes, that's a valid point. I see there are a number of Eagle to $other_PCB_package around, but all seem to have some issues, and not do a perfect translation.

         

        I've met this problem many times with other software. Mathematica had some significant changes in version 6, and had a converter to convert files from versions 5 or lower to version 6. In practice it was only partially successful. It would be nice if OpenOffice was 100% compatible with Word files, but in practice it is not.

         

        Dave

        • 316. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
          drkirkby

          A suggestion that want to get the license of Eagle changed

           

          1) Make a donation to KiCad, via CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research), The minimum donation is 20 Swiss Francs, which is just under $20.

           

          https://giving.web.cern.ch/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=6

           

          2) Leave your name - don't make the donation anonymous.

           

          3) Write to the CEO  of Autodesk, saying you are thinking of switching to KiCad, and show you have donated to the KiCad project, but say will stick with Eagle if the license decision is reversed.

           

          Whilst I can see some attractions for a company in having one license model for all products, it is too simplistic to assume that the same model is fit for all, especially if those products are aimed at different market sectors. A license model that is appropriate for software that's going to be sold to large corporations, may well be inappropriate for software that's going to be used by the hobbyist/small business market.

           

          Personally I can't see how this sort of license model is good for anything other than videos, music, games software, or anything else where loss of access is not going to have a major impact.

           

          BTW, if you run Eagle >= 8 in a virtual machine, I suspect you can stop it "phoning home" indefinitely. The program is not going to know what the date is, as long as the clock in the machine is set back before you start the program.

           

          Dave

          • 317. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
            CadSoft Guest

            David Kirkby wrote on Fri, 24 February 2017 12:07

            A suggestion that want to get the license of Eagle changed

             

            Look at the direction Autodesk is going in as a corporation.  EAGLE is only

            a (small) part of that corporation...

             

            If this was EEVBlog, I'd insert "beating a dead horse".

            --

            EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

             

            • 318. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
              Jan Cumps

              Are you going to work with unlicensed software as a professional designer? You make your own customers liable in that case.

              • 319. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                levafreidin

                     Just make my opinion stronger: they bought the EAGLE to kill the competitions.

                How many products disappear after another BIG company, "Microsoft", bought them?

                               Lev Freidin.

                • 320. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...

                  @David Kirkby:  Are you advocating breaking the license & stealing the software?  Just curious.

                   

                  Best regards,


                  Matt - Autodesk.

                  • 321. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                    rbtx99

                    Matt Berggren wrote:

                     

                    @David Kirkby: Are you advocating breaking the license & stealing the software? Just curious.

                     

                    Best regards,


                    Matt - Autodesk.

                     

                    Actually I am hopping that someone will manage to break the license. Not because I want to use the unlicensed copy, but because only when I can install it and run without online activation I will have confidence to use EAGLE for my work. It would be my fallback plan if you like for when you lose interest and abandon us unable to access our work.

                    • 322. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                      levafreidin

                              Next phrase does not belong to me:

                      " Actually I am hoping that someone will do it. Not because I want to use the unlicensed copy, but because only when I can install it and run without online activation I will have confidence to use EAGLE for my work. It would be my fall-back plan if you like for when you lose interest and abandon us unable to access out work."

                          

                              Again, I did not say it (sentence above). Why you sent the e-mail to me?

                       

                      But I have another solution of the problem:

                                    I  already bought AuloTRAX" (it imports "EAGLE" library and projects) ($49);

                                    I installed "KiCAD" (free);

                                    I installed "PCB Artist" (free);

                                    I install demo version of "DipTrace" (full cost $1200 about).

                       

                      Next step is to check and select more suitable for me software.

                      I think "KiCAD" would be most stable and growing, but I have to try.

                       

                                    Best regards,

                                           Lev Freidin, Electronics Engineer.

                      • 323. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                        geralds

                        Hi Matt,

                        have you ever read my posts here?

                         

                        1) Autodesk sells something Eagle does not yet have, but Autodesk is pushing us to pay a year before it will be developed later in the year.

                         

                        2) Autodesk pushes us to buy a toy software, because at the end of the license the Eagle falls back to a a toy version called "free version".

                         

                        3) Some employees (previously also of Cadsoft) of Autodesk seem to be a liar because they have said something last year,

                        but now have a complete 180 ° rotated statement, appeased to urge them what Autodesk prescribes.

                         

                        Matt, did you read my suggestions, the 4 points I posted here in this thread?

                         

                        I have to take Eagle at the time because a change is much more expensive.

                        But the software of the competition has already advanced over 15 - 20 years advanced software, which Autodesk wants to catch up in the 21st century.
                        All extra tools that Eagle provides, such as 3D view, component database, router quality, must be paid in advance at Autodesk, which are already installed as standard in the software.

                        But.... Eagle has nice functions, but......

                         

                        I appeal to think seriously about customer-friendliness.

                        It's YOUR - Autodesk risk if you can't write a well software.

                        If i like to buy a software, not just Eagle, i look for functions that it have right now, not sometime in the future!!!! "hopefully" !!!??!!
                        We can also reckon, also understand business mathematics.

                        I look forward to Eagle V9, V10, V???..... can it be happen?

                         

                        Best Regards,

                        Gerald

                        ----

                        • 324. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                          CadSoft Guest

                          Matt Berggren wrote on Fri, 24 February 2017 15:05

                          Best regards,

                          Matt - Autodesk.

                           

                          Nice of you to pop back in Matt.  Are you going to answer my questions

                          about your claim that Autodesk operates all of these servers?

                           

                          http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/mv/msg/53384/169470/b5a59619d668d7d428929436c36e1c27/#msg_169470

                          https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/matt-please-substantiate-your-claim/td-p/6888773

                           

                          We've had a reply from Element 14 already...

                          --

                          EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

                           

                          • 325. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                            drkirkby

                            Matt Berggren wrote:

                             

                            @David Kirkby: Are you advocating breaking the license & stealing the software? Just curious.

                             

                            Best regards,


                            Matt - Autodesk.

                            Matt,

                            Given the VERY real risks with the licensing scheme, I would not wish to put any effort into using a product I know could stop working at any minute. I would want a "plan B", if Autodesk folded (less likely), or dropped support for the product (much more likely), I'd want a way out. For what it is worth, there's a huge list of obsoleted Autodesk products at

                             

                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodesk#Discontinued_products

                             

                            So why should I have confidence Eagle would not go the same way?

                             

                            rbtx99 sums it up with

                             

                            "Actually I am hopping that someone will manage to break the license. Not because I want to use the unlicensed copy, but because only when I can install it and run without online activation I will have confidence to use EAGLE for my work. It would be my fallback plan if you like for when you lose interest and abandon us unable to access our work."

                             

                            I would feel exactly the same myself.

                             

                            Luckily I don't have time invested in Eagle, so unlike some I am less bothered about this license. It just strikes me as a crazy one, and I feel very sorry for the people caught up in it all.

                             

                            For me, KiCad is much more attractive. No vendor lock-in.

                             

                            Quite honestly Matt, I'm fairly certain IF I wanted to, (which I do not), I could get a free trial of Eagle and use the program indefinitely without paying a penny. But the truth is even if Autodesk offered me 50 years of support on the product, without paying another penny, I would not invest any time in it. It is simply too risky.

                             

                            If you want to offer me £10.000 if I can prove it could be hacked, then I'd take up the challenge, but otherwise I am not interested. Even if I hacked it, collected the £10,000, I would still not use it.

                             

                            Dave

                            • 326. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                              drkirkby

                              Jan Cumps wrote:

                               

                              Are you going to work with unlicensed software as a professional designer? You make your own customers liable in that case.

                               

                              No I am not going to work with unlicensed software. KiCad is much more attractive to me.

                               

                              But if I did use software that could stop working, I'd want a backup, in just the same way as I have a backup in case my hard disk fails.

                               

                              The expression "Don't put all ones eggs in one basket" comes tom mind.

                               

                              Dave

                              • 327. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                clem57

                                The storm I said was coming has turned into a full fledged hurricane.

                                • 328. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                  drkirkby

                                  Gerald Schwarz wrote:


                                   

                                  3) Some employees (previously also of Cadsoft) of Autodesk seem to be a liar because they have said something last year,

                                  but now have a complete 180 ° rotated statement, appeased to urge them what Autodesk prescribes.

                                   


                                  Best Regards,

                                  Gerald

                                  ----

                                  It is unreasonable to say someone is a liar over this. They probably said it with the best intentions in the world, believing it to be true, but later someone else made a decision different to what they expected.

                                   

                                  Dave

                                  • 329. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                    macegr

                                    I wonder how long it will take them to realize the truth:

                                     

                                    • Yes, the people who actively post on forums about Eagle, and care about licensing, are greatly in the minority.
                                    • Yes, there are many people who will just not care, and buy the subscription.
                                    • However, those people WERE TOLD ABOUT EAGLE by us, the vocal minority. We have a disproportionate impact on the market.

                                     

                                    Eagle, and Autodesk, do not have the momentum necessary to succeed without the support of the users, like myself, who recommended Eagle to their colleagues and invested valuable time helping those people learn to use Eagle.

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