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      • 375. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
        CadSoft Guest

        Matt Berggren wrote on Wed, 08 March 2017 20:45

        I'd corrected an innacuracy and I'll thank you for not trolling another

        user (myself included) and reducing this to a name calling exercise.

         

        So, the point remains.  Why will you not answer my and/or some other

        people's questions?  As I said, you seem to be very selective about what

        you respond to, and you are reinforcing it with this very message.

         

        BTW, you brought the subject up, I asked you to cite your sources, you've

        ignored me, I called you out.  That is not trolling.

         

        Quote:

        If you want to know more about me and what I get up to, checkout my

        hackaday profile (Hackaday.com/matt). When it's not building OSHW stuff

        or dropping in here when I can,  I'm working on EAGLE...if indeed your

        curious what Im up to.

         

        I don't care about what you "get up to" other than how it affects EAGLE.

        You could be some global humanitarian and it still wouldn't change the

        perception of how you interact with us here.  Now I have to admit "dropping

        in here when can" makes you seem more like a seagull than a douche.

        You lectured me about this community in a past message, but I really

        believe it's you who is not a part of the community.  You can "correct an

        inaccuracy" of my perception by answering my questions directly...

        --

        EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

         

        • 376. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
          geralds

          YES - That's the point! also what i meant above.

          The point of the disaster is that they not listening the costumers.

          And if so, they misinterpret the customers "the customers are so aggressive to me..."...

          No we are not aggressive we are a little bit annoyed about the strong method from Autodesk.

          "pay first today and then after one year you can get what you paid for..!"

          -> A bag with fleas inside.

           

          Gerald

          ---

          • 377. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
            dukepro

            On 03/09/2017 08:50 AM, Burner . wrote:

            If you don't have a network connection you don't have a mac address. It

            also changes from eithernet connection vs wifi.

            Paul

             

            That can explain it.

            Anyway I see that more like bug than feature then. Modern Windows 10 machines jump interfaces up and down quite lot depending do you have cable, wifi or vpn connected.

             

            I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

             

            Oh... wait, I see.  Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

            cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

            vpn (yet another interface).   Depending on what you're using at the

            time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

            what it was for a /previous/ connection.

             

            As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

            you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

            ECAD package.  Something to consider, anyway.

             

            If that software licence system use only active interface mac or prefer it it is not good software design. Yes it can be feature but so brain dead one that in perspective of users it is just badly broken software.

             

            Something that doesn't change on-the-fly is the disk ID on which the

            software is installed, or the inode number.  Granted, this does change

            with a disk swap, or restore from backups, so a revalidating of the

            license would be required in those instances.

             

            Anyway in PCB cad market they are not at monopoly position so enforcing customers to poor technology can lead just mass escape of customers.

             

            Well, the loss of customers was predicable.  I'm sure they had similar

            loss when they moved other products to subscription only.

             

            I'm also sure Autodesk considered the fiasco encountered when Cadsoft

            moved to flexlm with v7.0 and considered receiving a similar retort when

            they decided to acquire Cadsoft.  Personally, I believe Autodesk assumed

            that they would move to a subscription model well before the acquisition

            - that's their business model.  They'd been through the perpetual to

            subscription transition for most of their other products and assumed

            that the same would occur with Eagle.  Their past experiences with this

            turned out well for their revenue stream (which means that it did NOT

            lower the cost to customers), and the experience will turn out well for

            them with Cadsoft.

             

            The two primary problems I have with subscriptions are:

             

             

            • My intellectual property is essentially being held hostage.  It

                requires that I have an active paid subscription to maintain

                designs, and

             

            • I have to have a connection to the Internet in order for the

                software to validate the license.  This precludes use of Eagle in

                any environment that does not have a connection to the Internet.

             

            Those willing to accept a subscription model will see a rapid delivery

            of bug fixes and new features, since additional development resources

            can be dedicated to this effort.  I would assume that Matt is pretty

            much heading this up.  What developer wouldn't be happy with more funds

            available for development?  This can purchase higher quality software

            engineers, more floor space, not to mention the long wish list being

            tackled head-on and the integration with the existing MCAD products

            offered by Autodesk.  The downside to a subscription model has been well

            voiced in this forum.

             

            I can see where this is good, very good for Eagle.  It's really too bad

            that I won't be able to share the results of their efforts.

             

            Matt, I sincerely hope you enjoy the adventure ahead.

             

            Best regards,

                - Chuck

             

             

             

            • 378. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
              burner

              I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

               

              Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

              cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

              vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

              time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

              what it was for a /previous/ connection.

               

              As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

              you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

              ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

              I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

              • 379. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                dukepro

                On 03/09/2017 03:22 PM, Burner . wrote:

                I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

                 

                Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

                cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

                vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

                time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

                what it was for a /previous/ connection.

                 

                As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

                you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

                ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

                I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

                 

                Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

                hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

                 

                Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

                say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

                 

                I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

                other reasons.

                 

                Best regards,

                    - Chuck

                 

                • 380. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                  dukepro

                  On 03/09/2017 03:22 PM, Burner . wrote:

                  I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

                   

                  Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

                  cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

                  vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

                  time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

                  what it was for a /previous/ connection.

                   

                  As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

                  you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

                  ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

                  I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

                   

                  Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

                  hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

                   

                  Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

                  say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

                   

                  I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

                  other reasons.

                   

                  Best regards,

                      - Chuck

                   

                  • 381. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                    CadSoft Guest

                    Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

                    hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

                     

                    Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

                    say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

                     

                    I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

                    other reasons.

                     

                    Best regards,

                        - Chuck

                     

                     

                    Hey Chuck,

                     

                    To be perfectly honest, I wish you did have a dog in this race. I've

                    always appreciated your participation on the forums and your insights,

                    but anyway that's a different matter.

                     

                    This situation has been observed under linux and it is something that is

                    being looked into actively. Haven't heard of it on Windows I'll go ahead

                    and update the report we have on this issue.

                     

                    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

                     

                    Best Regards,

                    Jorge Garcia

                     

                    --

                    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

                     

                    • 382. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                      macegr

                      If I have to pay a certain amount every month to keep it alive, don't know if it'll be around 5-10-15 years in the future (but certainly not forever), have to accept its somewhat awkward and silly nature, and have to clean up after its accidents occasionally, I'll just go get a real dog.

                      • 383. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                        andycrofts

                        Horses for courses, I guess....
                        I used eagle free to design and test the prototype, then buy the low-cost commercial version to produce the production version.
                        I could have shrunk the board a lot by going 4-layer, but it didn't warrant the jump in price.
                        Now, if I understand correctly, I'll just need a 1-month subscription to convert the board to 4-layer, at 15 bucks! I could easily do it in a month...
                        Has eagle shot themselves in the foot?

                        • 384. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                          sanddancer

                          I'm disabled, but occasionally can get some extra pocket money by selling a board. So, to keep to the license agreement, I purchased a $70 license that allows me to use it for commercial purposes. That $70 is a fixed cost, I can budget it, I can work around it, if I needed, I could hold off on an upgrade for a few months until I could afford it. The new license at $100/year, however, is not worth it. Period. The new features don't justify the significant increase in price, and the month-by-month price starts getting significantly more expensive after month 5. Lowering standard to $5/month, I'd consider it, but at $15/month, no way.

                          • 385. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                            Ed Robledo

                            Andy Crofts wrote:

                             

                            Horses for courses, I guess....
                            I used eagle free to design and test the prototype, then buy the low-cost commercial version to produce the production version.
                            I could have shrunk the board a lot by going 4-layer, but it didn't warrant the jump in price.
                            Now, if I understand correctly, I'll just need a 1-month subscription to convert the board to 4-layer, at 15 bucks! I could easily do it in a month...
                            Has eagle shot themselves in the foot?

                            Hi Andy,

                            No, this is the idea, give better option to the user. Instead of having to make a upfront a large investment, you now have a commercial grade use of a program for the time you need it.  The program will continue to work for you as a viewer and to export the necessary production files. This is the whole idea behind the new license model.

                            Best Regards,

                            Ed Robledo

                            Support Specialist

                            Autodesk, Inc.

                            • 386. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                              rbtx99

                              Ed Robledo wrote:

                               

                              Hi Andy,

                              No, this is the idea, give better option to the user. Instead of having to make a upfront a large investment, you now have a commercial grade use of a program for the time you need it. The program will continue to work for you as a viewer and to export the necessary production files. This is the whole idea behind the new license model.

                              Best Regards,

                              Ed Robledo

                              Support Specialist

                              Autodesk, Inc.

                               

                              No, the idea of the subscription is to get more revenue for Autodesk. If your concern was about what the customers want then you would offer the perpetual license that everyone is asking for. You could offer it in parallel with the subscription but you are not interested in doing so.

                              • 387. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                sanddancer

                                Still more expensive than the old $70 commercial license after just five months. Still more expensive after a year for the maker license. This is pretty significant for a number of people, and Autodesk's attitude to the criticism is why I'm going to keep using my old version of eagle until I make the jump to KiCad. The value proposition is just not there, and Autodesk's hard press for this sales model is real off-putting.

                                • 388. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                  CadSoft Guest

                                  Am 20.03.2017 um 17:09 schrieb Ed Robledo:

                                  The program will continue to work for you as a viewer and to export the necessary production files. This is the whole idea behind the new license model.

                                   

                                  Exactly. The whole idea is that we end up with nothing but a viewer,

                                  after throwing away whatever amount of money. Do you really expect us

                                  loving it?

                                   

                                   

                                  • 389. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                    CadSoft Guest

                                    On 21.03.2017 09:57, René König wrote:

                                    Am 20.03.2017 um 17:09 schrieb Ed Robledo:

                                    The program will continue to work for you as a viewer and to export the necessary production files. This is the whole idea behind the new license model.

                                     

                                    Exactly. The whole idea is that we end up with nothing but a viewer,

                                    after throwing away whatever amount of money. Do you really expect us

                                    loving it?

                                     

                                    I think Autocad got it now. Only they will know if their new business

                                    model works with Eagle, and if they are able to earn money on it. If

                                    not, I am sure we will hear the signs in a year or two.

                                     

                                    Personally I agree that the value proposition is not there, and will

                                    take a while before it gets there. I have made my own list of features I

                                    would like Eagle to be able to see in a future version, and when I look

                                    at it from above, those new features will become very expensive.

                                     

                                    Maybe they could have offered a signigicant premium to existing 7.7

                                    users to catch us. A 50% discount for a year is not attractive enough to

                                    sign up to a payment plan with an unknown future.