85 Replies Latest reply on Apr 7, 2016 9:26 PM by CadSoft Guest

    New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle

    SpacedCowboy

      So, I've used Eagle now for over 10 years. In all that time I've always upgraded to the latest version, but that's just stopped.

       

      I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product as I have done for over a decade now.

       

      The problem is two-fold:

      • You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if you have a single user license.
      • You cannot use a flexlm-based license for a single-user license.

       

      The combination of those two things means I can't duplicate the setup I currently have, so this is the classic example of how proprietary software owners can screw you over without you having any recompense or workaround, despite you being a paying and loyal customer for an extended period of time. I don't consider cracking the software to be an adequate workaround.

       

      So, if I'm going to have to spend $$$ in the thousands, I'll take a good look at the competition first, and even at the freebies like kikad. Eagle has major shortcomings anyway - no "bus routing" and the differential pair support is poor at best. I think, with this decision, cadsoft couldn't have done more to help along the freebies, and lose the people who might some day splash the cash and go for the pro option.

       

      A primary rule for any software "upgrade" is "don't break the existing workflows". Eagle v7 is completely useless to me, not because of its feature-set, not because of any price issues, but because the management is being pants-on-head moronic about how it goes about licensing. Licensing, of all things.

       

      Very disappointed.

        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
          patweston

          I agree.I have a 5 user licenses, been a user for 7 years, users at different locations and no VPN. Now I have to go through a series of handstands to use what I bought. BS. My time is better spent on make money and not wasting it. I've been mulling over Altium, which incidentally imports Eagle files, it costs a bunch but this maybe the push I need.

          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
            philpem

            On 18/07/14 22:01, Simon Gornall wrote:

            So, I've used Eagle now for over 10 years. In all that time I've always

            upgraded to the latest version, but that's just stopped.

             

            I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always

            only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the

            license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which

            Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product

            as I have done for over a decade now.

             

            I absolutely agree. Part of the reason I picked EAGLE was because of the

            relatively liberal licensing policy. "Install on as many PCs as you

            like, as long as they all belong to you personally and only one PC is

            running EAGLE at a time". Great!

             

            The reason I switched to EAGLE in the first place was a competitor

            product which employed node-locked licensing. My PC failed, and they

            demanded I buy the product again to get a new license key. I declined.

            Some months later, they went out of business...

             

            What is the EAGLE hostID generated from? The motherboard? The hard

            drive? The partition serial numbers? The network card MAC address?

             

            If my network card, motherboard or whatever the HostID is based on

            fails, do I need to buy a new license? These type of license policies

            are very clearly profit-oriented and anti-consumer, and tells your

            customers that you don't trust them.

             

             

            The problem is two-fold:

            • You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if

            you have a single user license.

            • You cannot use a flexlm-based license for a single-user license.

             

             

            • If your PC (or in the case of some license managers, your network

            card) fails, you can't use the software and have to buy a new license,

            or at least wait for a new license key.

             

            • If your PC is stolen (very common for laptops), you lose one of your

            two licenses...

             

            • Some of us have more than one PC. I have a desktop in my office, an

            SFF desktop in the lab, a netbook and a full-size laptop. So I'd have to

            buy two separate EAGLE licenses (or a five-machine site license) just to

            have enough "single user" seats to use EAGLE on all these machines, even

            though I only use one at a time!

             

             

            The combination of those two things means I can't duplicate the setup I

            currently have, so this is the classic example of how proprietary

            software owners can screw you over without you having any recompense or

            workaround, despite you being a paying and loyal customer for an

            extended period of time. I don't consider cracking the software to be an

            adequate workaround.

             

            So, if I'm going to have to spend $$$ in the thousands, I'll take a good

            look at the competition first, and even at the freebies like kikad.

             

            Kicad is starting to look really good - CERN have been putting a lot of

            work in. I just don't like the lack of continuous forward/back

            annotation (one of EAGLE's killer features).

             

             

            A primary rule for any software "upgrade" is "don't break the existing

            workflows". Eagle v7 is completely useless to me, not because of its

            feature-set, not because of any price issues, but because the management

            is being pants-on-head moronic about how it goes about licensing.

            Licensing, of all things.

             

            Agreed. Hierarchical design was one of the features I really wanted to

            try (especially if I can reuse hierarchical design units), and I'd

            gladly have paid the upgrade fee for it.

             

            But with these licensing changes, I will not be upgrading, and I'll be

            looking at competing products (of which there are many).

             

            For corporate customers this probably won't be an issue (most of them

            probably buy enough 'seats' to get a server-based floating license

            anyway). But for hobbyists? This is going to be a deal breaker.

             

             

            Thanks,

            --

            Phil.

            philpem@philpem.me.uk

            http://www.philpem.me.uk/

             

              • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                michaelkellett

                I'm not (and never have been) an Eagle user but this licensing horror is so familiar. I have at least 6 serious bits of licensed software and only one of them supports a dongle (one of the others does if you pay extra). All the others use these silly machine locked licenses with issues arising at every upgrade and if a computer should die etc etc.

                 

                At least the dongle can be moved about easily.

                 

                I sometimes feel I should give up on paying and just use a pirate copy with less hassle.

                 

                I thought it was generally agreed that it was silly restrictions on legal music downloads that gave piracy such a foothold - why do software companies insist on repeating the same mistake ?

                 

                Currently I use EasyPC from Number One Systems, cheaper than Eagle (much) and pretty good - never had any licensing issues.

                 

                MK

                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                    CadSoft Guest

                    Am 19.07.2014 10:37, schrieb Michael Kellett:

                    so familiar. I have at least 6 serious bits of licensed software and

                    only one of them supports a dongle (one of the others does if you pay

                     

                    And if all of them had dongles, including EAGLE, you could carry 7 seven

                    dongles around. What a wonderful imagination. If if one of these dongles

                    breaks, you'll have to wait for replacement. Even more wonderful.

                     

                    CadSoft had a perfect single user licensing scheme. Why on earth

                    couldn't they just keep it as it was, after adding the additional

                    options for volume users?

                     

                    Rene

                     

                     

                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                        michaelkellett

                        "And if all of them had dongles, including EAGLE, you could carry 7 seven

                        dongles around. What a wonderful imagination. If if one of these dongles

                        breaks, you'll have to wait for replacement. Even more wonderful."

                         

                        I'd still only have 6 - I don't use Eagle

                         

                        I never said that dongles were perfect but I find them a good deal more user friendly than node locked licenses. Of course different people have different issues and one size doesn't fit all. The best software suppliers manage to offer a range of options so that their customers are happy and their IP is still protected.

                         

                        In my experience dongles fail a lot less often than computers.

                         

                        Ideally I'd like a system that didn't rely on node locking, dongles, access to internet etc etc but there doesn't seem to be one. Trust systems seem to work OK with some software but not with other, even similar, products.

                         

                        MK

                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                            anweid

                            Am 19.07.2014 14:24, schrieb Michael Kellett:

                            In my experience dongles fail a lot less often than computers.

                             

                            Yes. Lots of years ago, CadSoft DID use dongles (I think I remember

                            version 2.1 in the circuit board lab at University). These were then

                            cracked by 'The Electric Force Hamburg' (I think they were called), and

                            due to some clever crack detection tricks from CadSoft, the company even

                            found its way into some rather amusing press releases (amusing to me, at

                            least).

                             

                            At my institute, I started working with EAGLE 3 (I think), using a

                            dongle connected in series to AutoCAD's dongle. I darkly remember always

                            having to switch on the printer before starting EAGLE or AutoCAD,

                            because otherwise, one of them would complain about 'dongle not found'...

                             

                            Only AFTER CadSoft threw away the dongle (was it version 3.5?) did we

                            start buying licenses with MORE than one seat (yes, with the possibility

                            to copy illegaly, we PAID for more seats - probably because I'm stupid).

                            Otherwise, we would have needed to always mount/unmount dongles for use

                            with the other PCs of the same user (mainly office/lab at that time),

                            which nobody wanted to do.

                             

                            Andreas Weidner

                             

                              • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                philpem

                                On 21/07/14 22:18, Andreas Weidner wrote:

                                Only AFTER CadSoft threw away the dongle (was it version 3.5?) did we

                                start buying licenses with MORE than one seat (yes, with the possibility

                                to copy illegaly, we PAID for more seats - probably because I'm stupid).

                                Otherwise, we would have needed to always mount/unmount dongles for use

                                with the other PCs of the same user (mainly office/lab at that time),

                                which nobody wanted to do.

                                 

                                I've worked at places where the IT policies are written along the lines of:

                                  

                                • For unprotected software, there must be enough licences to cover

                                the machines the software is installed on (even if it's an

                                N-concurrent-users license, they go by machines).

                                  

                                • Compliance of this is strictly controlled (IT keep the install CD,

                                logs are kept of installs and uninstalls, and generally it's a ton of

                                paperwork).

                                  

                                • Dongles are allowed for single-user licenses, the software goes on

                                the "anyone can install it" list, on the basis that the dongles limit

                                the number of concurrent users to that which was licensed.

                                  

                                • Floating licenses are to be used where not cost prohibitive but a

                                trial license must be obtained to allow IT to check that the license

                                server software doesn't conflict with the other license servers.

                                 

                                According to an IT manager at a former employer, it's so that if a

                                disgruntled employee reports the company to the BSA or FAST for a

                                license audit (whether true or false), they can wave the licenses at

                                them and say "nope, we can't possibly be in non-compliance, now please

                                go away!"

                                 

                                 

                                So in short, it's a CYA measure: "We have five machines but likely only

                                one in use at a time, but we'd better get licenses for all five just in

                                case more than one is in use and we accidentally violate the licence."

                                 

                                 

                                --

                                Phil.

                                philpem@philpem.me.uk

                                http://www.philpem.me.uk/

                                 

                                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                    CadSoft Guest

                                    While I am just a hobbyist now (with the hobby license) since I retired, I

                                    still work with lots of folks that want to know what design software I

                                    like.  I think I am going to stay with version 6 (no, I have not "loaned"

                                    my license to anybody or installed it on more that one machine (does having

                                    it installed on the same machine twice - once for XP and once for Win7

                                    (dual boot) count as 2 machines?).  Looks like V6 for me.  One of the big

                                    problems lots of companies run into is they spend so much time trying to

                                    block the pirates (who will find a way around anyway), that all they do is

                                    irritate the legitimate users who are actually paying them money.

                                     

                                    mikey

                                     

                                    --

                                    Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

                                     

                              • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                kikoun

                                Hello everyone,

                                 

                                The protection of his software is a big challenge for a company. I'm really aware of that since I work in a company that design electronics but also is a software editor (software for industry). I think that Cadsoft needs to change their protection system, because they wouldn't spend so many week of work to do it. Maybe it was for technical reasons (maximum license number ?), maybe because they discover that too many eagle users use it with out license.

                                (It happened to my company: our  software was protected by dongle (I will not tell the brand of this dongle here) and 3 years ago, we found that you could buy on internet a software that simulate these dongles, and some of our customer use it ...).

                                My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?

                                 

                                But, selecting a good protection needs to understand what are the consequences for your customer and your company. I think Cadsoft miss that. In our company, we never propose a protection based on host ID, because host ID is troubles for your customers and also for you. And troubles is not how we do business in industrial environment.

                                We propose to our customers 2 solutions: license server EVEN FOR 1 USER LICENSE, or dongle protection (we designed our own new dongle, I have done the PCB design (with Eagle of course)).

                                 

                                Why Host ID is trouble for customers:

                                1. - You PC crashes, or need a reinstall, you loose the host ID. Even if Cadsoft regenerate a new license, you already lost time to reinstall or change your PC, but you have spare time to beg a new license ! not really 'industrial'... Ho, I forget, you can use a second host id... so now, explain me how I will give you TODAY the host ID of my future pc or OS I will have when, in 11 month, I will need to change my PC (or OS) ?!?
                                2. - In industry, it's easy to manage IDENTICAL COMPUTER. So even  there is 1 user license, license server is always the best option. Most of our big customers  always have a spare computers, ready to go, and If someone encounter some trouble, they immediately change the computer: it's easy if all is on server, not with host ID. And don't think that they are crazy: they know how much it cost when you employees can not work... That why we do the same in our company.
                                3. - You boss will finally accept to buy you a new computer with higher performance, but you will explain that it's tricky, you can really easily change your PC because of that host ID ??????
                                4. - I also have a personal license (for my personal use since I'm also a hobbyist), my pc run with LInux (opensuse).  Each time there is a new linux distribution I install it on my computer (1 per year). Will i have to beg for a new license ?????
                                5. - and I don't mention all the good reasons previously written on that forum...

                                 

                                And on the Cadsoft side, there are 2 options:

                                1. - They accept to regenerate host ID to all customer that need to : It's a lot of work for nothing, and they will not control any thing ( what will prove them that you have changed your os or your pc ? ( I will not spend a penny to send them the remains of my  PC)...
                                2. - They refuse to regenerate host id: they will be accused of theft by their customers.

                                 

                                My conclusion :

                                So I'm sorry to say that: it's not really serious to choose:  'No dongle AND no flexlm for 1 user'.

                                For my company, my boss is not ready to buy a software based on host ID. And if there is no way to have a license server option (or at least a dongle), I think I would have trouble to convince him (we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles...).

                                 

                                For my own personal license: I was about to purchase the V7 update, but I will not, unless:

                                • Cadsoft propose a dongle option (even if it costs a little bit more because of the dongle itself).
                                • or Cadsoft will confirm that in November, when I will reinstall new linux OS (next opensuse version) (On the same computer of course), the host ID will not change.
                                • or last option, Cadsoft let us purchase a single user flexlm license, so I could run the server on a old computer. But that solution sucks because this means that I could not use Eagle out of my home, even if my computer is a laptop !

                                 

                                PS for Cadsoft reader:

                                I understand the need to change a protection system.

                                 

                                I understand that dongle can be challenging, specially if you plan to use dongle from an other company.

                                Our experience is that we designed our own dongle, 3 years ago. We already sold 2700 dongle with our software, and each dongle cost us 14€. This dongle is design for us only, so hackers have too few interest to hack the protection. And we save money: the previous one cost us 35€ and it was so popular (used by several famous software) that is was hacked !

                                 

                                But why no 1 user server based solution ?????

                                 

                                Guillaume Barrey

                                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                    patweston

                                    "My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"

                                    It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.

                                     

                                    IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.


                                    Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.

                                     

                                    What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.

                                     

                                    What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!

                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                        kikoun

                                        patweston a écrit:

                                         

                                        "My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"

                                        It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.

                                         

                                        IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.


                                        Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.

                                         

                                        What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.

                                         

                                        What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!

                                        My point was that some time we have to change things. But when we plan to change something, we had to think about it carefully and think about the consequences. And it's seems that Cadsoft didn't figure that.

                                        I didn't know that installing V7 will uninstall previous version. THAT IS STUPID FOR A SOFTWARE USED FOR PRODUCTION OR INDUSTRY. How could we work if the new version is buggy. And how we open/edit some project without converting it to new version (to send it to someone who still work with the previous version for example)

                                         

                                        And according to your message, it seems that the documentation were not ready too...

                                         

                                        The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...

                                         

                                        For dongle protection, I encounter some trouble too (with the Autocad's dongle, and with dongles we used to protect our software. That why we develop our own dongle).

                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                            SpacedCowboy

                                            Guillaume barrey wrote:

                                             

                                            The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...

                                             

                                            Well it would be good - if they allowed single user licenses to use flexor, but since they don't, it's a non-starter for me.

                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                            CadSoft Guest

                                            Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:

                                             

                                            snip

                                             

                                            What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,

                                             

                                             

                                            Can someone confirm that??

                                             

                                            And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?

                                             

                                             

                                            --

                                            Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                                             

                                            Joern Paschedag

                                             

                                              • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                coflynn

                                                Can someone confirm that??

                                                Not for me - I installed 7.0.0 to test it out, and have all my previous versions still there & licensed...

                                                • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                  CadSoft Guest

                                                  On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                                                  Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:

                                                   

                                                  snip

                                                   

                                                  What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,

                                                   

                                                  Can someone confirm that??

                                                   

                                                  And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't

                                                  comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous

                                                  versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac

                                                  user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but

                                                  that has been my experience.

                                                   

                                                  EAGLE never automatically uninstalls by design.

                                                   

                                                  hth,

                                                  Jorge Garcia

                                                   

                                                    • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                      SpacedCowboy

                                                      CadSoft Guest wrote:

                                                       

                                                      On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                                                      Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:

                                                       

                                                      snip

                                                       

                                                      What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,

                                                       

                                                      Can someone confirm that??

                                                       

                                                      And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't

                                                      comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous

                                                      versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac

                                                      user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but

                                                      that has been my experience.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      It's just another screw-up on Cadsoft's part. The Mac (like any computer) only does what the software engineer tells it to. If your installer deletes old versions, it's not a "Mac" thing, it's a decision taken by the software engineer who wrote that software.

                                                       

                                                      FYI, I have a Mac with

                                                       

                                                      simon% ls -dl /Applications/EAGLE*

                                                      drwxr-xr-x  15 simon  admin  510 Oct 13  2011 /Applications/EAGLE

                                                      drwxr-xr-x  14 simon  admin  476 Jun  6  2012 /Applications/EAGLE-6.1.0

                                                      drwxrwxr-x  12 simon  admin  408 Oct  9  2012 /Applications/EAGLE-6.2.0

                                                      drwxrwxr-x   6 simon  admin  204 Aug 13  2013 /Applications/EAGLE-6.3.0

                                                      drwxr-xr-x  14 simon  admin  476 Dec 16  2013 /Applications/EAGLE-6.5.0

                                                       

                                                      Clearly, each installation takes place in its own directory in /Applications. I haven't installed v7 because I've no intention of buying it - the brain-dead licensing being the sole reason.

                                                       

                                                      Simon.

                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                        CadSoft Guest

                                                        Am 21.07.2014 21:17, schrieb Jorge Garcia:

                                                        On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                                                        Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:

                                                         

                                                        snip

                                                         

                                                        What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,

                                                         

                                                        Can someone confirm that??

                                                         

                                                        And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't

                                                        comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous

                                                        versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac

                                                        user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but

                                                        that has been my experience.

                                                         

                                                        EAGLE never automatically uninstalls by design.

                                                         

                                                        hth,

                                                        Jorge Garcia

                                                         

                                                        At least not until now?

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for your answer Jorge.

                                                        From being a long time user I know that eagle has sometimes problems

                                                        with  Mac.

                                                        Perhaps I should have mentioned that I am a win user (although if this

                                                        problem exist it concerns all eagle users) and maybe I hear some more

                                                        statements.

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        --

                                                        Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                                                         

                                                        Joern Paschedag

                                                         

                                                        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                          salamander7

                                                          When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble and try to restore my previous version from backup.

                                                           

                                                          This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one that needs to be fixed pronto.

                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                              CadSoft Guest

                                                              Am 23.07.2014 00:17, schrieb Matt Compton:

                                                              When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed

                                                              deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick

                                                              checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble

                                                              and try to restore my previous version from backup.

                                                               

                                                              This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one

                                                              that needs to be fixed pronto.

                                                               

                                                              --

                                                              To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

                                                              http://www.element14.com/community/message/121457

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              Thanks Matt for this clear information.

                                                               

                                                              --

                                                              Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                                                               

                                                              Joern Paschedag

                                                               

                                                                • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                  CadSoft Guest

                                                                  On 7/22/2014 10:57 PM, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                                                                  Am 23.07.2014 00:17, schrieb Matt Compton:

                                                                  When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed

                                                                  deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick

                                                                  checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble

                                                                  and try to restore my previous version from backup.

                                                                   

                                                                  This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one

                                                                  that needs to be fixed pronto.

                                                                   

                                                                  --

                                                                  To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

                                                                  http://www.element14.com/community/message/121457

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Thanks Matt for this clear information.

                                                                   

                                                                  Hi Guys,

                                                                   

                                                                  I will report this, if it is an installer issue it's not intentional.

                                                                  Otherwise we would have all of the other installers (Windows and Linux)

                                                                  doing the same thing, which of course would be very bad. I'll

                                                                  let you know what response I receive from the devs.

                                                                   

                                                                  Best Regards,

                                                                  Jorge Garcia

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                  CadSoft Guest

                                                  On 18.07.2014 23:01, Simon Gornall wrote:

                                                  I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always

                                                  only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the

                                                  license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which

                                                  Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product

                                                  as I have done for over a decade now.

                                                   

                                                  Same here.... We even have a 3 seat license, which in the last 10 years

                                                  never was used with more than a single user.

                                                   

                                                  Markus

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                    Joop14

                                                    It looks like Cadsoft want to piss off their customers. The most important question for them is, how many more licences will they sell because of this "improved license management" and how many future sales/upgrades they will lose...

                                                     

                                                    It's true that you can find pirated copies with torrent but, honestly, people who use those pirated copies for free, will never buy a license because they are not professionals. For them it's not important enough to spend money for a license. So, their is not much gain for Cadsoft.

                                                    And I'm sure that also V7 will be cracked and available on torrent soon. In the end, honest people who have bought a license will be punished with this silly "host-id" restriction and the pirates will continue laughing.

                                                     

                                                    We have bought a license for the professional version (V6) but with this "improved license management" it's unlikely that we are going to upgrade...

                                                     

                                                    Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                        kikoun

                                                        Hi,

                                                        Joop14 is right.

                                                        Since V5 I use eagle, I purchased my license for my personal use, I made my company to purchase it's own, so at work I use the license of my company. I and my company purchase the upgrade to V6.

                                                        I could use only one license for my company and my personal use, but I didn't and I will not. But if we can not purchase a server base 1 user license or a dongle based one, my company will certainly not purchase and update and we will keep V6. And for my personal use I will do the same.

                                                         

                                                        As I said

                                                        we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles

                                                        so why purchase this update ?

                                                         

                                                        And why on earth they don't let us choose a 1 user server based license: there is NO technical issue since all the license server I know support 1 user or several users !!!

                                                         

                                                        I'm not into future reading, and I don't know

                                                        how many more licenses will they sell because of this "improved license management"

                                                        but I see one thing: if they don't change their policy, they at least loose my license, that the one of my company.

                                                        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                          CadSoft Guest

                                                          On 20.07.2014 09:17, Joop14 wrote:

                                                           

                                                          Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

                                                           

                                                          Greetings from Mr. Shareholder Value

                                                           

                                                          Markus

                                                           

                                                           

                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                              CadSoft Guest

                                                              Am 21.07.2014 07:43, schrieb Markus Rudolf:

                                                              On 20.07.2014 09:17, Joop14 wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

                                                               

                                                              Greetings from Mr. Shareholder Value

                                                               

                                                              Markus

                                                               

                                                               

                                                              I think so.

                                                               

                                                              Afaik there was an agreement between the founders and Farnell to

                                                              continue the business as it was then..

                                                              Perhaps the peace time has run out?

                                                               

                                                              --

                                                              Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                                                               

                                                              Joern Paschedag

                                                               

                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                              dukepro

                                                              On 07/20/2014 03:17 AM, Joop14 wrote:

                                                              Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?

                                                               

                                                              This is the kind of thing that happens when a bureaucrat is left alone

                                                              in a room with a typewriter.

                                                               

                                                              Did they expected to boost their sales with a more restrictive license

                                                              policy, or moving from a user based license to a concurrent license?

                                                               

                                                              Cadsoft, you were doing so well.  Now you've made a strategic decision

                                                              down a path that will more likely lead to fewer sales, not more.

                                                               

                                                              I, for one, am looking forward to version 7.1 that reverts back to the

                                                              previous licensing policy, you know, the one that produced the growth

                                                              that you've seen so far.

                                                               

                                                                  - Chuck

                                                              10 year+ eagle user.

                                                               

                                                                • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                  CadSoft Guest

                                                                  Hi!

                                                                   

                                                                  Am 21.07.2014 15:55, schrieb Chuck Huber:

                                                                  This is the kind of thing that happens when a bureaucrat is left alone

                                                                  in a room with a typewriter.

                                                                   

                                                                  Exactly.

                                                                   

                                                                  Did they expected to boost their sales with a more restrictive license

                                                                  policy, or moving from a user based license to a concurrent license?

                                                                   

                                                                  They do, as Walter Spermann explained: They concentrate on a new

                                                                  customer base in Asia/Russia and that these new customers want a

                                                                  licensing scheme like this. Hence they give a shit on us paying

                                                                  customers of the past.

                                                                   

                                                                  I, for one, am looking forward to version 7.1 that reverts back to the

                                                                  previous licensing policy, you know, the one that produced the growth

                                                                  that you've seen so far.

                                                                   

                                                                  The next thing you'll probably get is the dongle that Jorge Garcia is so

                                                                  hot for. You'll have to wait for V8, at least. However, all these

                                                                  activities add more and more cost to the product, but there is

                                                                  absolutely no value added, no progress...

                                                                   

                                                                  All that's left to do for now: Don't upgrade.

                                                                   

                                                                  Rene

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                    • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                      CadSoft Guest

                                                                      rk wrote on Mon, 21 July 2014 10:20

                                                                      They do, as Walter Spermann explained: They concentrate on a new

                                                                      customer base in Asia/Russia and that these new customers want a

                                                                      licensing scheme like this.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      That's nonsense.  Much more likely, Cadsoft is worried about more license

                                                                      fraud from those areas and is seeking to protect itself, which is exactly

                                                                      the opposite of what the customers want in Asia and Russia.

                                                                       

                                                                      Overall, this means Cadsoft values the potential new customers more than

                                                                      the existing ones.  This makes me worry that much of their future effort

                                                                      will be in producing Chinese and Russian language versions instead of

                                                                      giving us new features.

                                                                       

                                                                      The more I hear, the more this sounds like the beginning of the end.  I

                                                                      have a lot invested in Eagle, but now that seems like a liability.  With

                                                                      the obnoxios license structure and the future of Eagle itself now in

                                                                      question, it's time to look around to see what else is out there.

                                                                      --

                                                                      Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

                                                                       

                                                                        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                          CadSoft Guest

                                                                          Hello Olin,

                                                                           

                                                                          > The more I hear, the more this sounds like the beginning of the end.

                                                                          I have a lot invested in Eagle, but now that seems like a liability.  With

                                                                          the obnoxios license structure and the future of Eagle itself now in

                                                                          question, it's time to look around to see what else is out there.

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          I agree with you .... unfortunately.

                                                                           

                                                                          And regarding cr...s - I am quite sure the cr...ed versions will be

                                                                          "available" soon, similar like for other software. A lot of software

                                                                          based on hardware-Id got the "k..gen" and ...

                                                                           

                                                                          For me the best protection was the method used from 3.x to 5.x - the

                                                                          editors serial stored in the file.

                                                                           

                                                                          Best regards

                                                                          --

                                                                          Grzegorz Zalot

                                                                           

                                                                          complex ltd.

                                                                          office tel/fax : +48 32 2505840

                                                                          mobil : +48 501 301515

                                                                           

                                                                          http://www.complex.org.pl/

                                                                           

                                                                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                    skyflyrr

                                                                    Our company has a 3 seat Pro license and we will be searching for another CAD software to use.

                                                                     

                                                                    Bob Moreno

                                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                        philpem

                                                                        On 21/07/14 15:35, Bob Moreno wrote:

                                                                        Our company has a 3 seat Pro license and we will be searching for

                                                                        another CAD software to use.

                                                                         

                                                                        We're using a competing package at work (about which nobody has a nice

                                                                        word to say). I've been pushing for a trial of EAGLE, on the basis that

                                                                        the realtime forward/back annotation alone would have saved us hours.

                                                                         

                                                                        I think I'm going to find a better use of my time. And that was a

                                                                        potential 5-seat site licence sale for Cadsoft, potentially increasing

                                                                        if there was interest from other development sites.

                                                                         

                                                                        I hear the Altium branded grass is a little greener this time of year...

                                                                         

                                                                        --

                                                                        Phil.

                                                                        philpem@philpem.me.uk

                                                                        http://www.philpem.me.uk/

                                                                         

                                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                        Eugeny Brychkov

                                                                        I agree that it happened because of purchase of CadSoft. Guys in Farnell believe that forcing stricter licensing policies will bring less pirate action and more revenue. As some of us already said here, pirates will not be affected and will just laugh on rightful people having issues with new version. If people will not be upgrading to 7.0, v.6 will stay the de-facto standard, and pirates will have even easier life...

                                                                         

                                                                        What can I recommend to Farnell? If you want more revenue, do better sales and marketing job getting new businesses. More customers having more designs. Less sellers on the market selling designs using non-licensed software.

                                                                         

                                                                        Existing revenue cow can die if abused. Change of business model is possible, but it should be very careful, and responsive. That's basics!

                                                                         

                                                                        I personally invested my time in supporting EAGLE (see http://kb.gr8bit.ru/KB0015/GR8BIT-KB0015-Best-practices-creating-designs-with-EAGLE.html), and wish it long fruitful life - for CadSoft and its users. Let's hope it will get better, and, anyway, we still have version 6, which works well and satisfies our needs.

                                                                        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                          asj

                                                                          The licensing change is really unfortunate, and means there's no way I can upgrade, even though the features are most interesting.  Reasons:

                                                                           

                                                                          1. Running a license server means I need to immediately involve IT in the software purchasing decision.  We're a small research group at the far flung edge of the world, without local IT or EngOps. So this means I have to work with "national" IT, and coordinate work with company wide IT about 16 hours away.  For $1000-$2000 of software? They're already busy as it is, and their first question will be: what alternatives are there?

                                                                           

                                                                          2. The 2 or 3 people using eagle now need VPN access.  We've never needed it before, all our email and voice/video conferring is done without VPN access and provides 99% of the people what they need.  Again, back to IT for assistance.

                                                                           

                                                                          3. We frequently work at test labs, or remote sites around the world.  Getting VPN access, if at all possible is probably going to be over roaming sim cards via tethered phones.  We either can't pull up schematics anymore, or we're going to be paying huge amounts of money to tether to roaming sim cards.  For what?  Eagle to do a license check? 

                                                                           

                                                                          Solidworks, IAR, etc all have these problems and they're already a royal pain.  Need to replace the IAR dongle? $500-$750 to replace. Ran into that lovely problem when an airline lost some luggage.  Never again am I going willingly down that route with any company.  To bad too, I've worked with eagle for almost 10 years.

                                                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                            kevinh

                                                                            Wow, thanks for this 'news'!

                                                                            I used the hobby version just because many friends do/did. For business (very small) I looked at the professional versions, but found for the board area and layers I required Eagle was just too expensive, so even with my Eagle experience decided to opt for DesignSpark PCB which has absolutely no hassle regarding licensing.

                                                                            I regularly move my designs between my laptop and desktops according to where I'm working and as the sole user feel this should be acceptable for a single user licence (think this was the old Borland analogy, treat it as a book, read it where you require, but don't copy it?), so now extremely pleased I made the right decision for me and invested the time to learn a new package.

                                                                            Although DSPCB has some limitations for my manual layouts (I believe strongly this is the designers responsibility) I find I can achieve good designs efficiently and it is well suited to most users, both hobby and professional.

                                                                             

                                                                            If I want more features then I'm not sure what software I would progress to, but it certainly will not now be Eagle!

                                                                             

                                                                            Glad I wandered here to see what new features were incorporated in Eagle........

                                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                              dougw

                                                                              I purchased Eagle Pro about 10 years ago after very carefully evaluating all the options - I was already proficient with most of the major CAD packages. I have not regretted the decision - Eagle is a great little CAd package and I have designed hundreds of PCBs with it. However its very success as a great little CAD package is pushing it to transition further away from the hobbiest and educational markets towards the mainstream industrial CAD market and all their associated infrastructure. This is a difficult transition in a competitive market and I don't pretend to understand why they feel this licensing policy is the best approach to meet their goals, but I'm sure they have reasons.

                                                                              Unfortunately, this takes Eagle off its position as the #1 most desirable CAD package for users in my market segment.

                                                                              Fortunately, I will be able to use version 6 to meet my needs for a few years before I need to make another careful choice.

                                                                              As an aside, in this age of technology, where big brother knows your every move, it is easy to figure out how to track software usage without any draconian licensing policies and you don't even need to get involved in policing - every police force now has a software fraud squad.

                                                                              • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                NF6X

                                                                                I started using Eagle on my Mac in 2010, and purchased Eagle Professional v5 with schematic, layout and autorouter. I use it for hobby purposes, but I use higher-end PCB CAD software at work in my day job, so I just felt too constrained by the limitations of the lower tiers of Eagle.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I then upgraded to Eagle Professional v6 in 2012. As I recall, that was a paid upgrade, and I happily upgraded due to the new features in v6.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Due to the licensing change in v7, not to mention the brain-dead removal of prior versions when installing v7, I will not be upgrading to v7. I'll continue using v6 for the time being, until I find a better alternative. KiCad is starting to look interesting. I clearly don't mind paying for good software, but I will not tolerate intrusive license management. Even if upgrading to v7 was free of charge, I would not upgrade due to its intrusive license management.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Of course, once I become satisfied with another tool, I won't be likely to switch back to Eagle even if they remove the intrusive licensing enforcement in some later version. Switching CAD systems is not a decision to be taken lightly, and it takes strong reasons to force an engineer to change tools. The licensing in v7 is a strong enough reason to cause me to drop Eagle and switch to another tool.

                                                                                  • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                    CadSoft Guest

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Due to the licensing change in v7, not to mention the brain-dead removal

                                                                                    of prior versions when installing v7, I will not be upgrading to v7.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Hi Mark,

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Just a comment on the brain dead removal of prior versions on the Mac. I

                                                                                    wanted to update that I brought the issue to the attention of our

                                                                                    developers and we can confirm that the issue is with the software we use

                                                                                    to package EAGLE for the Mac. We will be updating this software soon, so

                                                                                    this will no longer be a problem.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    hth,

                                                                                    Jorge Garcia

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                        NF6X

                                                                                        Just a comment on the brain dead removal of prior versions on the Mac. I

                                                                                        wanted to update that I brought the issue to the attention of our

                                                                                        developers and we can confirm that the issue is with the software we use

                                                                                        to package EAGLE for the Mac. We will be updating this software soon, so

                                                                                        this will no longer be a problem.

                                                                                         

                                                                                        Well, that's nice. It still doesn't address the primary issue I have with v7, which is the new licensing enforcement. This alone is enough to make me not consider using v7, even as a free upgrade. I want to make sure that CadSoft understands that they are losing my future revenue as an Eagle Professional customer due to this change.

                                                                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                            CadSoft Guest

                                                                                              > Well, that's nice. It still doesn't address the primary issue I have

                                                                                            with v7, which is the new licensing enforcement. This alone is enough to

                                                                                            make me not consider using v7, even as a free upgrade. I want to make

                                                                                            sure that CadSoft understands that they are losing my future revenue as

                                                                                            an Eagle Professional customer due to this change.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Hi Mark,

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Point taken, lets see what management decides to do with it.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Best Regards,

                                                                                            Jorge Garcia

                                                                                             

                                                                                             

                                                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                        kirash4

                                                                                        I guess v6.6.0 will be my last one as well. I use Eagle on two separate workstations as well as my laptop that I travel with. All of them are single instances, meaning I'm not running them at the same time. However, our machines do go through upgrades/replacements at least once a year (at different intervals) and to have to deal with hostids and what not each and every time, not to mention needing at least two licenses (since it's possible to install one license on two machines), it's just not worth it anymore. This was a bad move on CADSoft/Farnell and I wish them the best in the future. They lost another customer not to mention the many friends I've originally recommended Eagle to who are now also leaving.

                                                                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                            NF6X

                                                                                            kirash4 wrote:

                                                                                             

                                                                                            They lost another customer not to mention the many friends I've originally recommended Eagle too who are now also leaving.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            That's a good point. Not only will CadSoft lose my future revenue; there will also be the admittedly small effect that at some point my open-source hardware designs will be developed in some tool other than Eagle. While there's presently only a small handful of people who pay attention to my open hardware due to its niche application, I can imagine that if this licensing change induces other open hardware contributors to switch from Eagle to something else (most likely KiCad), that will have some impact upon which CAD tools new engineers will select based on their experiences with public projects from more experienced designers.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I get the impression that there has been a long rivalry between Eagle and KiCad at the low end of the PCB CAD spectrum. I believe that this change will inevitably tip the scales much more towards KiCad in that area. Perhaps CadSoft/Farnell have decided they don't care so much about the low-end, and want to go after higher end users? That won't fly, though, because Eagle isn't even close to being real competition to products from the like of Mentor, Cadence and Altium. The primary reason I picked Eagle Professional for my personal use vs. Mentor PADS that I use at work, is that I didn't want to use pirated software and PADS is priced way too high for a home user; even one like me who's willing to pay $1,500 for CAD software for hobby use. Oh, yeah, PADS also has obnoxious licensing enforcement that causes all of the expected headaches. But in terms of capability, there's no competition between PADS and Eagle. I wouldn't dream of using Eagle for the types of things I do at work, such as a recent 18-layer PCB with hundreds of multi-GHz impedance-matched diff pair nets.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            I strongly feel that this is a foot-shooting move on CadSoft/Farnell's part.

                                                                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                            CadSoft Guest

                                                                                            Hello All,

                                                                                             

                                                                                            In light of all of the issues of the new licensing mechanism, we have

                                                                                            decided to revert to our licensing scheme. There will no longer be a

                                                                                            requirement to use a HostID or FlexLM server.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Thank you all for your feedback.

                                                                                             

                                                                                            Best Regards,

                                                                                            Jorge Garcia

                                                                                             

                                                                                             

                                                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                              rbtx99

                                                                                              The licencing is the main reason I didn't upgrade past V5. I do fancy some of the new features and I was considering upgrading but not if I have to loose the flexibility of running EAGLE at work, home and laptop. Whilst Cadsoft may have prevented some licencing fraud in my case they lost both the V6 and V7 upgrades.

                                                                                               

                                                                                              I like EAGLE and I will continue to use my v5 version as long as I can; then move to something else. KiCad perhaps. The good news is that the v5 runs on Windows 10 so I am not pressed to change and I can continue to maintain the old projects.

                                                                                                • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                  CadSoft Guest

                                                                                                  On 13/09/15 19:35, Angelos Gonias wrote:

                                                                                                  The licencing is the main reason I didn't upgrade past V5.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  Catch up at the back there!

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license works

                                                                                                  the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you

                                                                                                  probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                    • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                      rbtx99

                                                                                                      CadSoft Guest wrote:

                                                                                                      This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license works

                                                                                                      the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you

                                                                                                      probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.

                                                                                                       

                                                                                                      Well that is good news and tempting to do an update. But what do you mean about the options?

                                                                                                        • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                          CadSoft Guest

                                                                                                          On 14/09/15 09:22, rbtx99 wrote:

                                                                                                          CadSoft Guest wrote:

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license

                                                                                                          works

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          Well that is good news and tempting to do an update. But what do you

                                                                                                          mean about the options?

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                          V7 introduced some extra license types, now called "Make Pro" and "Make

                                                                                                          Personal", that require Internet connections and such. Just ignore them.

                                                                                                          The "standard" and "professional" licenses are the same as they always were.

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                           

                                                                                                            • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                              CadSoft Guest

                                                                                                              V7 introduced some extra license types, now called "Make Pro" and "Make

                                                                                                              Personal", that require Internet connections and such. Just ignore them.

                                                                                                              The "standard" and "professional" licenses are the same as they always were.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              Make Personal, is the Hobbyist renamed it doesn't require an internet

                                                                                                              connection. The only real new thing is Make Pro, which has an area

                                                                                                              limitation instead of the fixed dimensions we used to have. That's the

                                                                                                              only real new thing.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              Basically with Make Pro as long as your board is less than approx 24 sq

                                                                                                              inches you'll be OK, you have flexible limits.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              Everything else is just a rose by a different name.

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                              hth,

                                                                                                              Jorge Garcia

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                               

                                                                                                      • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                        kedwa30

                                                                                                        I've read the first and last pages and so I understand the issue to be resolved with this particular product, but I had an idea that I just wanted to put out there.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        "You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if you have a single user license."

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        What about the possibility of installing to a virtual machine? If that is allowed at all, then that could solve the problem since you'd be able to put the virtual machine file on a external drive or keep it in the cloud and boot it to any host machine you happen to have available.

                                                                                                        Of course it's not an ideal solution since the virtual machine is always a fraction of the power of the bare metal machine. Technically it would only be installed to the one virtual machine which would only exist when it is booted. Another workaround is to use one of many programs that allows you to control a computer remotely. Of course that requires a network connection.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        Someday the notion of having a single machine will be erased as home computers become made up of arrays of single board computers setup like a supercomputer. Rather than upgrade to a faster desktop, increasing compute power will be accomplished by adding boards to the array. Boards that go bad will simply be removed from the array.

                                                                                                         

                                                                                                        When a person buys a product they expect to pay one time. When they buy a service or a subscription, that's different. If two people share three cars, they end up paying for six insurance policies, one per person per car. They don't expect to do the same with software.

                                                                                                        It's not the same and should not be billed the same. Software is not insurance. If it was, then it should be regulated like insurance is regulated. Think about that.

                                                                                                          • Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
                                                                                                            CadSoft Guest

                                                                                                            On 9/15/2015 12:20 PM, Kenneth Edwards wrote:

                                                                                                            I've read the first and last pages and so I understand the issue to be

                                                                                                            resolved with this particular product, but I had an idea that I just

                                                                                                            wanted to put out there.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            "You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if

                                                                                                            you have a single user license."

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Hi Kenneth,

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            I hope you're doing well. Again, this is obsolete information. We

                                                                                                            removed that licensing mechanism one month after the release of V7 and

                                                                                                            reverted back to our old system which allows users to install on as many

                                                                                                            machines as they have.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            These types of concerns are precisely why(thankfully) management made

                                                                                                            the decision to back off on this licensing mechanism(I'm sure the

                                                                                                            horrendous blow to sales helped a bit too ).

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            This entire thread is obsolete because we removed that very offensive

                                                                                                            licensing scheme.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            This is how things stand now 09/15/2015:

                                                                                                            1. You may install EAGLE on as many machines as you own. As long as no

                                                                                                            more than the number of licensed users are using EAGLE at any point in

                                                                                                            time you are complying with the license.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Ex. If you have a 3 user license, you can install EAGLE on an infinite

                                                                                                            number of machines as long as no more than 3 people are using EAGLE at

                                                                                                            the same time everything is cool.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            2. Licenses are assigned to a location. So for example if you have 3

                                                                                                            offices around the world. Each one needs to have it's own license, this

                                                                                                            enables the person responsible for the license at each location to

                                                                                                            monitor the use of the licenses locally.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            3. All of the updates within a major version are free.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Ex. We are now in V7. You will receive 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, etc. for no

                                                                                                            additional cost. You use the same key file and installation code to

                                                                                                            license each update.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            4. Upgrades are not compulsory, users determine if they wish to upgrade

                                                                                                            or not.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            Ex. Once V8 is released, you have the option to continue using V7

                                                                                                            without paying another cent. Keep in mind that development of a major

                                                                                                            series stops once a new major version comes out so you will not receive

                                                                                                            any new bugfixes or corrections(Unless it's something exceptional). The

                                                                                                            other choice is to upgrade to V8 for an upgrade fee. The upgrade fee is

                                                                                                            roughly 1/3 of your original purchase price.

                                                                                                             

                                                                                                            hth,

                                                                                                            Jorge Garcia

                                                                                                            Cadsoft Support