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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
patweston Jul 18, 2014 6:52 PM (in response to SpacedCowboy)I agree.I have a 5 user licenses, been a user for 7 years, users at different locations and no VPN. Now I have to go through a series of handstands to use what I bought. BS. My time is better spent on make money and not wasting it. I've been mulling over Altium, which incidentally imports Eagle files, it costs a bunch but this maybe the push I need.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
philpem Jul 19, 2014 12:56 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)On 18/07/14 22:01, Simon Gornall wrote:
So, I've used Eagle now for over 10 years. In all that time I've always
upgraded to the latest version, but that's just stopped.
I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always
only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the
license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which
Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product
as I have done for over a decade now.
I absolutely agree. Part of the reason I picked EAGLE was because of the
relatively liberal licensing policy. "Install on as many PCs as you
like, as long as they all belong to you personally and only one PC is
running EAGLE at a time". Great!
The reason I switched to EAGLE in the first place was a competitor
product which employed node-locked licensing. My PC failed, and they
demanded I buy the product again to get a new license key. I declined.
Some months later, they went out of business...
What is the EAGLE hostID generated from? The motherboard? The hard
drive? The partition serial numbers? The network card MAC address?
If my network card, motherboard or whatever the HostID is based on
fails, do I need to buy a new license? These type of license policies
are very clearly profit-oriented and anti-consumer, and tells your
customers that you don't trust them.
The problem is two-fold:
You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if
you have a single user license.
You cannot use a flexlm-based license for a single-user license.
If your PC (or in the case of some license managers, your network
card) fails, you can't use the software and have to buy a new license,
or at least wait for a new license key.
If your PC is stolen (very common for laptops), you lose one of your
two licenses...
Some of us have more than one PC. I have a desktop in my office, an
SFF desktop in the lab, a netbook and a full-size laptop. So I'd have to
buy two separate EAGLE licenses (or a five-machine site license) just to
have enough "single user" seats to use EAGLE on all these machines, even
though I only use one at a time!
The combination of those two things means I can't duplicate the setup I
currently have, so this is the classic example of how proprietary
software owners can screw you over without you having any recompense or
workaround, despite you being a paying and loyal customer for an
extended period of time. I don't consider cracking the software to be an
adequate workaround.
So, if I'm going to have to spend $$$ in the thousands, I'll take a good
look at the competition first, and even at the freebies like kikad.
Kicad is starting to look really good - CERN have been putting a lot of
work in. I just don't like the lack of continuous forward/back
annotation (one of EAGLE's killer features).
A primary rule for any software "upgrade" is "don't break the existing
workflows". Eagle v7 is completely useless to me, not because of its
feature-set, not because of any price issues, but because the management
is being pants-on-head moronic about how it goes about licensing.
Licensing, of all things.
Agreed. Hierarchical design was one of the features I really wanted to
try (especially if I can reuse hierarchical design units), and I'd
gladly have paid the upgrade fee for it.
But with these licensing changes, I will not be upgrading, and I'll be
looking at competing products (of which there are many).
For corporate customers this probably won't be an issue (most of them
probably buy enough 'seats' to get a server-based floating license
anyway). But for hobbyists? This is going to be a deal breaker.
Thanks,
--
Phil.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
michaelkellettJul 19, 2014 3:37 AM (in response to philpem)
I'm not (and never have been) an Eagle user but this licensing horror is so familiar. I have at least 6 serious bits of licensed software and only one of them supports a dongle (one of the others does if you pay extra). All the others use these silly machine locked licenses with issues arising at every upgrade and if a computer should die etc etc.
At least the dongle can be moved about easily.
I sometimes feel I should give up on paying and just use a pirate copy with less hassle.
I thought it was generally agreed that it was silly restrictions on legal music downloads that gave piracy such a foothold - why do software companies insist on repeating the same mistake ?
Currently I use EasyPC from Number One Systems, cheaper than Eagle (much) and pretty good - never had any licensing issues.
MK
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 19, 2014 5:36 AM (in response to michaelkellett)Am 19.07.2014 10:37, schrieb Michael Kellett:
so familiar. I have at least 6 serious bits of licensed software and
only one of them supports a dongle (one of the others does if you pay
And if all of them had dongles, including EAGLE, you could carry 7 seven
dongles around. What a wonderful imagination. If if one of these dongles
breaks, you'll have to wait for replacement. Even more wonderful.
CadSoft had a perfect single user licensing scheme. Why on earth
couldn't they just keep it as it was, after adding the additional
options for volume users?
Rene
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
michaelkellettJul 19, 2014 7:24 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)
"And if all of them had dongles, including EAGLE, you could carry 7 seven
dongles around. What a wonderful imagination. If if one of these dongles
breaks, you'll have to wait for replacement. Even more wonderful."
I'd still only have 6 - I don't use Eagle
I never said that dongles were perfect but I find them a good deal more user friendly than node locked licenses. Of course different people have different issues and one size doesn't fit all. The best software suppliers manage to offer a range of options so that their customers are happy and their IP is still protected.
In my experience dongles fail a lot less often than computers.
Ideally I'd like a system that didn't rely on node locking, dongles, access to internet etc etc but there doesn't seem to be one. Trust systems seem to work OK with some software but not with other, even similar, products.
MK
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
anweid Jul 21, 2014 4:18 PM (in response to michaelkellett)Am 19.07.2014 14:24, schrieb Michael Kellett:
In my experience dongles fail a lot less often than computers.
Yes. Lots of years ago, CadSoft DID use dongles (I think I remember
version 2.1 in the circuit board lab at University). These were then
cracked by 'The Electric Force Hamburg' (I think they were called), and
due to some clever crack detection tricks from CadSoft, the company even
found its way into some rather amusing press releases (amusing to me, at
least).
At my institute, I started working with EAGLE 3 (I think), using a
dongle connected in series to AutoCAD's dongle. I darkly remember always
having to switch on the printer before starting EAGLE or AutoCAD,
because otherwise, one of them would complain about 'dongle not found'...
Only AFTER CadSoft threw away the dongle (was it version 3.5?) did we
start buying licenses with MORE than one seat (yes, with the possibility
to copy illegaly, we PAID for more seats - probably because I'm stupid).
Otherwise, we would have needed to always mount/unmount dongles for use
with the other PCs of the same user (mainly office/lab at that time),
which nobody wanted to do.
Andreas Weidner
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
philpem Jul 25, 2014 8:55 AM (in response to anweid)On 21/07/14 22:18, Andreas Weidner wrote:
Only AFTER CadSoft threw away the dongle (was it version 3.5?) did we
start buying licenses with MORE than one seat (yes, with the possibility
to copy illegaly, we PAID for more seats - probably because I'm stupid).
Otherwise, we would have needed to always mount/unmount dongles for use
with the other PCs of the same user (mainly office/lab at that time),
which nobody wanted to do.
I've worked at places where the IT policies are written along the lines of:
For unprotected software, there must be enough licences to cover
the machines the software is installed on (even if it's an
N-concurrent-users license, they go by machines).
Compliance of this is strictly controlled (IT keep the install CD,
logs are kept of installs and uninstalls, and generally it's a ton of
paperwork).
Dongles are allowed for single-user licenses, the software goes on
the "anyone can install it" list, on the basis that the dongles limit
the number of concurrent users to that which was licensed.
Floating licenses are to be used where not cost prohibitive but a
trial license must be obtained to allow IT to check that the license
server software doesn't conflict with the other license servers.
According to an IT manager at a former employer, it's so that if a
disgruntled employee reports the company to the BSA or FAST for a
license audit (whether true or false), they can wave the licenses at
them and say "nope, we can't possibly be in non-compliance, now please
go away!"
So in short, it's a CYA measure: "We have five machines but likely only
one in use at a time, but we'd better get licenses for all five just in
case more than one is in use and we accidentally violate the licence."
--
Phil.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 25, 2014 10:30 AM (in response to philpem)While I am just a hobbyist now (with the hobby license) since I retired, I
still work with lots of folks that want to know what design software I
like. I think I am going to stay with version 6 (no, I have not "loaned"
my license to anybody or installed it on more that one machine (does having
it installed on the same machine twice - once for XP and once for Win7
(dual boot) count as 2 machines?). Looks like V6 for me. One of the big
problems lots of companies run into is they spend so much time trying to
block the pirates (who will find a way around anyway), that all they do is
irritate the legitimate users who are actually paying them money.
mikey
--
Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca. Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Jul 19, 2014 8:29 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Hello everyone,
The protection of his software is a big challenge for a company. I'm really aware of that since I work in a company that design electronics but also is a software editor (software for industry). I think that Cadsoft needs to change their protection system, because they wouldn't spend so many week of work to do it. Maybe it was for technical reasons (maximum license number ?), maybe because they discover that too many eagle users use it with out license.
(It happened to my company: our software was protected by dongle (I will not tell the brand of this dongle here) and 3 years ago, we found that you could buy on internet a software that simulate these dongles, and some of our customer use it ...).
My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?
But, selecting a good protection needs to understand what are the consequences for your customer and your company. I think Cadsoft miss that. In our company, we never propose a protection based on host ID, because host ID is troubles for your customers and also for you. And troubles is not how we do business in industrial environment.
We propose to our customers 2 solutions: license server EVEN FOR 1 USER LICENSE, or dongle protection (we designed our own new dongle, I have done the PCB design (with Eagle of course)).
Why Host ID is trouble for customers:
- - You PC crashes, or need a reinstall, you loose the host ID. Even if Cadsoft regenerate a new license, you already lost time to reinstall or change your PC, but you have spare time to beg a new license ! not really 'industrial'... Ho, I forget, you can use a second host id... so now, explain me how I will give you TODAY the host ID of my future pc or OS I will have when, in 11 month, I will need to change my PC (or OS) ?!?
- - In industry, it's easy to manage IDENTICAL COMPUTER. So even there is 1 user license, license server is always the best option. Most of our big customers always have a spare computers, ready to go, and If someone encounter some trouble, they immediately change the computer: it's easy if all is on server, not with host ID. And don't think that they are crazy: they know how much it cost when you employees can not work... That why we do the same in our company.
- - You boss will finally accept to buy you a new computer with higher performance, but you will explain that it's tricky, you can really easily change your PC because of that host ID ??????
- - I also have a personal license (for my personal use since I'm also a hobbyist), my pc run with LInux (opensuse). Each time there is a new linux distribution I install it on my computer (1 per year). Will i have to beg for a new license ?????
- - and I don't mention all the good reasons previously written on that forum...
And on the Cadsoft side, there are 2 options:
- - They accept to regenerate host ID to all customer that need to : It's a lot of work for nothing, and they will not control any thing ( what will prove them that you have changed your os or your pc ? ( I will not spend a penny to send them the remains of my PC)...
- - They refuse to regenerate host id: they will be accused of theft by their customers.
My conclusion :
So I'm sorry to say that: it's not really serious to choose: 'No dongle AND no flexlm for 1 user'.
For my company, my boss is not ready to buy a software based on host ID. And if there is no way to have a license server option (or at least a dongle), I think I would have trouble to convince him (we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles...).
For my own personal license: I was about to purchase the V7 update, but I will not, unless:
- Cadsoft propose a dongle option (even if it costs a little bit more because of the dongle itself).
- or Cadsoft will confirm that in November, when I will reinstall new linux OS (next opensuse version) (On the same computer of course), the host ID will not change.
- or last option, Cadsoft let us purchase a single user flexlm license, so I could run the server on a old computer. But that solution sucks because this means that I could not use Eagle out of my home, even if my computer is a laptop !
PS for Cadsoft reader:
I understand the need to change a protection system.
I understand that dongle can be challenging, specially if you plan to use dongle from an other company.
Our experience is that we designed our own dongle, 3 years ago. We already sold 2700 dongle with our software, and each dongle cost us 14€. This dongle is design for us only, so hackers have too few interest to hack the protection. And we save money: the previous one cost us 35€ and it was so popular (used by several famous software) that is was hacked !
But why no 1 user server based solution ?????
Guillaume Barrey
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
patweston Jul 19, 2014 3:28 PM (in response to kikoun)"My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"
It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.
IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.
Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.
What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Jul 19, 2014 4:00 PM (in response to patweston)patweston a écrit:
"My first point t is, I will not complain about changing the protection mechanism: we change password, don't we ?"
It takes 30 seconds to change a password. I've spent 2 fruitless and frustrating hours trying to install the license server using inadequate instructions without success.
IMHO dongles are a pain as well. I have about a two dozen software packages that don't use dongles and are reasonably well protected.
Why can't Eagle serve the licenses so I don't have to host a server. There will be no need for VPN and no need for me to screw around for hours adding more unwanted software on my computer.What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions, so here I am without the ability to continue working.
What a royal blunder. Thanks Eagle!!!
My point was that some time we have to change things. But when we plan to change something, we had to think about it carefully and think about the consequences. And it's seems that Cadsoft didn't figure that.
I didn't know that installing V7 will uninstall previous version. THAT IS STUPID FOR A SOFTWARE USED FOR PRODUCTION OR INDUSTRY. How could we work if the new version is buggy. And how we open/edit some project without converting it to new version (to send it to someone who still work with the previous version for example)
And according to your message, it seems that the documentation were not ready too...
The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...
For dongle protection, I encounter some trouble too (with the Autocad's dongle, and with dongles we used to protect our software. That why we develop our own dongle).
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
SpacedCowboy Jul 20, 2014 12:05 AM (in response to kikoun)Guillaume barrey wrote:
The idea of Eagle serving license is quite good (National Instrument use some thing like that for is Labveiw software and it work fine !) The limitation is that you need internet access...
Well it would be good - if they allowed single user licenses to use flexor, but since they don't, it's a non-starter for me.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 2:13 AM (in response to patweston)Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:
snip
What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,
Can someone confirm that??
And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
coflynn Jul 21, 2014 7:48 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Can someone confirm that??
Not for me - I installed 7.0.0 to test it out, and have all my previous versions still there & licensed...
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 9:31 AM (in response to coflynn)Am 21.07.2014 14:48, schrieb Colin O'Flynn:
Can someone confirm that??
Not for me - I installed 7.0.0 to test it out, and have all my previous
versions still there & licensed...
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Colin thank you for the answer.
I suppose he just overwrote ver.6 with ver.7,
otherwise.... oh boy...
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
patweston Jul 21, 2014 10:43 AM (in response to coflynn)I have an iMAC.
V6.6.0 was there, licensed and working. I installed V7.0.0, struggled unsuccessfully to instal the license, tried to launch V6.6.0, nothing happened. The folder was still there but only content was a bin folder with the eagle.key file. Nothing was overwritten, there is a separate folder for V7.0.0 with all the folders and files there, but is unusable.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 11:30 AM (in response to patweston)Am 21.07.2014 17:43, schrieb patweston:
I have an iMAC.
V6.6.0 was there, licensed and working. I installed V7.0.0, struggled
unsuccessfully to instal the license, tried to launch V6.6.0, nothing
happened. The folder was still there but only content was a bin folder
with the eagle.key file. Nothing was overwritten, there is a separate
folder for V7.0.0 with all the folders and files there, but is unusable.
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Thank you patweston for the answer.
I hope to hear some others and perhaps one from cadsoft.
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
coflynn Jul 21, 2014 12:11 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)I have an iMAC.
I'm on Win7 where the installer worked, so perhaps there's some issue with the Mac version or other issues with the installer.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
eat638 Aug 13, 2014 7:03 AM (in response to patweston)Hi There ... I had Eagle 6.6.0 running on my mac ... YES this copy did get deleted when installing 7.0.0. It would have been nice to know about this licensing before the change ... emailed cadsoft about this & they sent me a quotation for a upgrade. US$500-600 on top of what I paid last year??? (US$1600-1700)
BUT I was able to re-install the previous version. ( I'm not religious but thank god!!!)
This program has so much going for it ... add such a extreme licensing system??? I have another cad program which uses the same type of licensing, while a good program, the licensing makes it a nightmare.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 13, 2014 12:07 PM (in response to eat638)Hi Leon,
We reverted to our old more flexible licensing system, so at the very
least that nightmare is gone.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 13, 2014 1:48 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Jorge, CadSoft may have revered back to the old licensing, however it doesn't make a bit of difference when a) the license file for v6 no longer works for v7, and b) repeated e-mails to sales@cadsoft are not being replied to. So what's it going to take to get SOMEONE to reply to those e-mails requesting a license update/upgrade?
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
NF6X Aug 13, 2014 2:19 PM (in response to kirash4)If I am not mistaken, v6 to v7 is a paid upgrade, so the v6 license naturally will not work with v7. I checked on the upgrade price for my installation, and it was $550. I'm debating whether the new features in v7 are worth that to me, and sticking with v6 for the time being.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 13, 2014 2:26 PM (in response to NF6X)Well, that would explain the license file not working. However, regardless, I have received ZERO communications from Sales regarding an upgrade, despite repeated e-mails. So yeah, at this rate they won't be getting my money.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 14, 2014 2:42 PM (in response to kirash4)On 8/13/2014 2:48 PM, kirash4 wrote:
Jorge, CadSoft may have revered back to the old licensing, however it
doesn't make a bit of difference when a) the license file for v6 no
longer works for v7, and b) repeated e-mails to sales@cadsoft are not
being replied to. So what's it going to take to get SOMEONE to reply to
those e-mails requesting a license update/upgrade?
Hi kirash,
I think you're sending the e-mails to the wrong place. You should be
contacting sales@cadsoftusa.com, not sales@cadsoft.com. Through some
twist there are two completely independent companies that have Cadsoft
in there name on this earth.
I haven't seen any e-mails from you personally, if you wish you can
contact me jorge@cadsoftusa.com.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 14, 2014 3:10 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Nope, I just verified and I have been sending them to the correct e-mail address at cadsoftusa.com. It would be coming from kirash4 at gmail ...
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 18, 2014 4:52 PM (in response to kirash4)On 8/14/2014 4:10 PM, kirash4 wrote:
Nope, I just verified and I have been sending them to the correct e-mail
address at cadsoftusa.com. It would be coming from kirash4 at gmail ...
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Hi Kirash,
Ok then, try sending the e-mail directly to me and I'll pass it on to sales.
Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Aug 19, 2014 11:23 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Hi,
I also sent a message to 'sales@cadsoftusa.com' to ask them to convert my V7.0 license into a 7.1, but I get not answer yet. I check the address too, and the date of my mail (Thu, 14 Aug 2014 14:37:30 +0200). I don't not if it's just too soon to have an answer, or if the mail get lost, like Kirash one's.
What should I do ? :
- wait a little more,
- send again the mail,
- by an update on cadsoft web site, even if the price is 0$ ?!?
Guillaume Barrey
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 19, 2014 12:29 PM (in response to kikoun)Hi Guillaume,
E-mail me directly, I think I can take care of that personally since you
already have a V7 license its easy enough for me to do it. Let me know
if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 19, 2014 12:56 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Thanks Jorge. If going through sales is the same thing as doing it online on the website, I'll just do that. Unless for some odd reason the price would be different.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Apr 7, 2016 9:26 PM (in response to kirash4)On 8/19/2014 1:56 PM, kirash4 wrote:
Thanks Jorge. If going through sales is the same thing as doing it
online on the website, I'll just do that. Unless for some odd reason the
price would be different.
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Hi Kirash,
The price will be the same wether you go through the site or through the
phone, so do whatever is most convenient for you.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
dcomer@nm5dc.com Aug 22, 2014 8:28 AM (in response to kirash4)I'd like to thank Jorge and his excellent attitude in helping me get my license updated. I'm sure the licensing policy changes have been difficult for support. Personally I lost the credentials for my newly acquired 7.0 upgrade (dumb, I know) and Jorge fixed that in 5 minutes or less. That's when I learned that CadSoft had reverted back to the old licensing system due to customer complaints reflected in this thread. I'd say that's commendable as they listened (choice or not) to what their customers. I plan to stay with CadSoft for as long as their customer service remains outstanding and the product continues to meet my need.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Aug 22, 2014 11:31 AM (in response to dcomer@nm5dc.com)Hi,
Dave Comer a écrit:
I'd like to thank Jorge and his excellent attitude in helping me get my license updated.
I would like to thank Jorge too, he also help me to convert my license 7.0 in to 7.1 He is really helpful, and not only for license problem. So
Thank you Jorge, and thank you Cadsoft for their attention to customer complains or suggestions.
Guillaume Barrey.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
coflynn Aug 13, 2014 1:44 PM (in response to eat638)FYI they reverted the new licensing model, 7 is exactly like 6 now (e.g. once you've got the install code you don't need CadSoft's blessing to change machines). I also believe all the old installers are freely available... I'm not sure if there is a link but you can figure it out from the download URL easily enough. It's useful if you need to support someone using another version.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 2:17 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:
Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:
snip
What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,
Can someone confirm that??
And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?
My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't
comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous
versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac
user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but
that has been my experience.
EAGLE never automatically uninstalls by design.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
SpacedCowboy Jul 21, 2014 3:52 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)CadSoft Guest wrote:
On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:
Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:
snip
What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,
Can someone confirm that??
And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?
My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't
comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous
versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac
user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but
that has been my experience.
It's just another screw-up on Cadsoft's part. The Mac (like any computer) only does what the software engineer tells it to. If your installer deletes old versions, it's not a "Mac" thing, it's a decision taken by the software engineer who wrote that software.
FYI, I have a Mac with
simon% ls -dl /Applications/EAGLE*
drwxr-xr-x 15 simon admin 510 Oct 13 2011 /Applications/EAGLE
drwxr-xr-x 14 simon admin 476 Jun 6 2012 /Applications/EAGLE-6.1.0
drwxrwxr-x 12 simon admin 408 Oct 9 2012 /Applications/EAGLE-6.2.0
drwxrwxr-x 6 simon admin 204 Aug 13 2013 /Applications/EAGLE-6.3.0
drwxr-xr-x 14 simon admin 476 Dec 16 2013 /Applications/EAGLE-6.5.0
Clearly, each installation takes place in its own directory in /Applications. I haven't installed v7 because I've no intention of buying it - the brain-dead licensing being the sole reason.
Simon.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 22, 2014 1:03 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Am 21.07.2014 21:17, schrieb Jorge Garcia:
On 7/21/2014 3:13 AM, Joern Paschedag wrote:
Am 19.07.2014 22:28, schrieb patweston:
snip
What really irks me is that installing 7.0.0 removed previous versions,
Can someone confirm that??
And what about a Cadsoft statement regarding it?
My guess here is that patweston is using a Mac. For some reason, I can't
comprehend like many things, the MacOS automatically uninstalls previous
versions of software when you install a new one. I'm not a hard core Mac
user, and someone more experienced than me can correct me on that but
that has been my experience.
EAGLE never automatically uninstalls by design.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
At least not until now?
Thanks for your answer Jorge.
From being a long time user I know that eagle has sometimes problems
with Mac.
Perhaps I should have mentioned that I am a win user (although if this
problem exist it concerns all eagle users) and maybe I hear some more
statements.
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
salamander7 Jul 22, 2014 5:17 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble and try to restore my previous version from backup.
This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one that needs to be fixed pronto.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 22, 2014 9:57 PM (in response to salamander7)Am 23.07.2014 00:17, schrieb Matt Compton:
When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed
deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick
checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble
and try to restore my previous version from backup.
This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one
that needs to be fixed pronto.
--
To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
http://www.element14.com/community/message/121457
Thanks Matt for this clear information.
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 23, 2014 10:34 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)On 7/22/2014 10:57 PM, Joern Paschedag wrote:
Am 23.07.2014 00:17, schrieb Matt Compton:
When installing version 7 under MacOS, the CadSoft installer indeed
deletes all working files in the old 6.6 directory. Looks like my quick
checkout of the new version didn't go quite as planned. Time to scramble
and try to restore my previous version from backup.
This is NOT a MacOS problem, it is a Cadsoft installer problem and one
that needs to be fixed pronto.
--
To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:
http://www.element14.com/community/message/121457
Thanks Matt for this clear information.
Hi Guys,
I will report this, if it is an installer issue it's not intentional.
Otherwise we would have all of the other installers (Windows and Linux)
doing the same thing, which of course would be very bad. I'll
let you know what response I receive from the devs.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 19, 2014 6:26 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)On 18.07.2014 23:01, Simon Gornall wrote:
I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always
only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the
license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which
Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product
as I have done for over a decade now.
Same here.... We even have a 3 seat license, which in the last 10 years
never was used with more than a single user.
Markus
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Joop14 Jul 20, 2014 2:18 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)It looks like Cadsoft want to piss off their customers. The most important question for them is, how many more licences will they sell because of this "improved license management" and how many future sales/upgrades they will lose...
It's true that you can find pirated copies with torrent but, honestly, people who use those pirated copies for free, will never buy a license because they are not professionals. For them it's not important enough to spend money for a license. So, their is not much gain for Cadsoft.
And I'm sure that also V7 will be cracked and available on torrent soon. In the end, honest people who have bought a license will be punished with this silly "host-id" restriction and the pirates will continue laughing.
We have bought a license for the professional version (V6) but with this "improved license management" it's unlikely that we are going to upgrade...
Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Jul 20, 2014 5:31 AM (in response to Joop14)Hi,
Joop14 is right.
Since V5 I use eagle, I purchased my license for my personal use, I made my company to purchase it's own, so at work I use the license of my company. I and my company purchase the upgrade to V6.
I could use only one license for my company and my personal use, but I didn't and I will not. But if we can not purchase a server base 1 user license or a dongle based one, my company will certainly not purchase and update and we will keep V6. And for my personal use I will do the same.
As I said
we don't have the auto-router license, so except hierarchical schematics, this version will bring us hostID, (hoop sorry) troubles
so why purchase this update ?
And why on earth they don't let us choose a 1 user server based license: there is NO technical issue since all the license server I know support 1 user or several users !!!
I'm not into future reading, and I don't know
how many more licenses will they sell because of this "improved license management"
but I see one thing: if they don't change their policy, they at least loose my license, that the one of my company.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 12:43 AM (in response to Joop14)On 20.07.2014 09:17, Joop14 wrote:
Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?
Greetings from Mr. Shareholder Value
Markus
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 11:45 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Am 21.07.2014 07:43, schrieb Markus Rudolf:
On 20.07.2014 09:17, Joop14 wrote:
Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?
Greetings from Mr. Shareholder Value
Markus
I think so.
Afaik there was an agreement between the founders and Farnell to
continue the business as it was then..
Perhaps the peace time has run out?
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards
Joern Paschedag
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
dukepro Jul 21, 2014 8:55 AM (in response to Joop14)On 07/20/2014 03:17 AM, Joop14 wrote:
Could this all be because Farnell has bought Cadsof Eagle?
This is the kind of thing that happens when a bureaucrat is left alone
in a room with a typewriter.
Did they expected to boost their sales with a more restrictive license
policy, or moving from a user based license to a concurrent license?
Cadsoft, you were doing so well. Now you've made a strategic decision
down a path that will more likely lead to fewer sales, not more.
I, for one, am looking forward to version 7.1 that reverts back to the
previous licensing policy, you know, the one that produced the growth
that you've seen so far.
- Chuck
10 year+ eagle user.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 9:20 AM (in response to dukepro)Hi!
Am 21.07.2014 15:55, schrieb Chuck Huber:
This is the kind of thing that happens when a bureaucrat is left alone
in a room with a typewriter.
Exactly.
Did they expected to boost their sales with a more restrictive license
policy, or moving from a user based license to a concurrent license?
They do, as Walter Spermann explained: They concentrate on a new
customer base in Asia/Russia and that these new customers want a
licensing scheme like this. Hence they give a shit on us paying
customers of the past.
I, for one, am looking forward to version 7.1 that reverts back to the
previous licensing policy, you know, the one that produced the growth
that you've seen so far.
The next thing you'll probably get is the dongle that Jorge Garcia is so
hot for. You'll have to wait for V8, at least. However, all these
activities add more and more cost to the product, but there is
absolutely no value added, no progress...
All that's left to do for now: Don't upgrade.
Rene
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 21, 2014 9:40 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)rk wrote on Mon, 21 July 2014 10:20
They do, as Walter Spermann explained: They concentrate on a new
customer base in Asia/Russia and that these new customers want a
licensing scheme like this.
That's nonsense. Much more likely, Cadsoft is worried about more license
fraud from those areas and is seeking to protect itself, which is exactly
the opposite of what the customers want in Asia and Russia.
Overall, this means Cadsoft values the potential new customers more than
the existing ones. This makes me worry that much of their future effort
will be in producing Chinese and Russian language versions instead of
giving us new features.
The more I hear, the more this sounds like the beginning of the end. I
have a lot invested in Eagle, but now that seems like a liability. With
the obnoxios license structure and the future of Eagle itself now in
question, it's time to look around to see what else is out there.
--
Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca. Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 22, 2014 5:07 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Hello Olin,
> The more I hear, the more this sounds like the beginning of the end.
I have a lot invested in Eagle, but now that seems like a liability. With
the obnoxios license structure and the future of Eagle itself now in
question, it's time to look around to see what else is out there.
I agree with you .... unfortunately.
And regarding cr...s - I am quite sure the cr...ed versions will be
"available" soon, similar like for other software. A lot of software
based on hardware-Id got the "k..gen" and ...
For me the best protection was the method used from 3.x to 5.x - the
editors serial stored in the file.
Best regards
--
Grzegorz Zalot
complex ltd.
office tel/fax : +48 32 2505840
mobil : +48 501 301515
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kikoun Jul 22, 2014 6:13 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)For me the best protection was the method used from 3.x to 5.x - the
editors serial stored in the file.
That was really a great, simple and really efficient. Work done with Cr..ed version of eagle was simply corrupted, and could not be used.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
skyflyrr Jul 21, 2014 9:35 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)Our company has a 3 seat Pro license and we will be searching for another CAD software to use.
Bob Moreno
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
philpem Jul 21, 2014 3:32 PM (in response to skyflyrr)On 21/07/14 15:35, Bob Moreno wrote:
Our company has a 3 seat Pro license and we will be searching for
another CAD software to use.
We're using a competing package at work (about which nobody has a nice
word to say). I've been pushing for a trial of EAGLE, on the basis that
the realtime forward/back annotation alone would have saved us hours.
I think I'm going to find a better use of my time. And that was a
potential 5-seat site licence sale for Cadsoft, potentially increasing
if there was interest from other development sites.
I hear the Altium branded grass is a little greener this time of year...
--
Phil.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Eugeny Brychkov Jul 26, 2014 11:16 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)I agree that it happened because of purchase of CadSoft. Guys in Farnell believe that forcing stricter licensing policies will bring less pirate action and more revenue. As some of us already said here, pirates will not be affected and will just laugh on rightful people having issues with new version. If people will not be upgrading to 7.0, v.6 will stay the de-facto standard, and pirates will have even easier life...
What can I recommend to Farnell? If you want more revenue, do better sales and marketing job getting new businesses. More customers having more designs. Less sellers on the market selling designs using non-licensed software.
Existing revenue cow can die if abused. Change of business model is possible, but it should be very careful, and responsive. That's basics!
I personally invested my time in supporting EAGLE (see http://kb.gr8bit.ru/KB0015/GR8BIT-KB0015-Best-practices-creating-designs-with-EAGLE.html), and wish it long fruitful life - for CadSoft and its users. Let's hope it will get better, and, anyway, we still have version 6, which works well and satisfies our needs.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
asj Jul 27, 2014 2:56 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)The licensing change is really unfortunate, and means there's no way I can upgrade, even though the features are most interesting. Reasons:
1. Running a license server means I need to immediately involve IT in the software purchasing decision. We're a small research group at the far flung edge of the world, without local IT or EngOps. So this means I have to work with "national" IT, and coordinate work with company wide IT about 16 hours away. For $1000-$2000 of software? They're already busy as it is, and their first question will be: what alternatives are there?
2. The 2 or 3 people using eagle now need VPN access. We've never needed it before, all our email and voice/video conferring is done without VPN access and provides 99% of the people what they need. Again, back to IT for assistance.
3. We frequently work at test labs, or remote sites around the world. Getting VPN access, if at all possible is probably going to be over roaming sim cards via tethered phones. We either can't pull up schematics anymore, or we're going to be paying huge amounts of money to tether to roaming sim cards. For what? Eagle to do a license check?
Solidworks, IAR, etc all have these problems and they're already a royal pain. Need to replace the IAR dongle? $500-$750 to replace. Ran into that lovely problem when an airline lost some luggage. Never again am I going willingly down that route with any company. To bad too, I've worked with eagle for almost 10 years.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 30, 2014 11:25 AM (in response to asj)a sj wrote
... and coordinate work with company wide IT about 16 hours away.
What planet are you on that has at least a 32 hour day?
--
Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca. Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Jul 30, 2014 12:11 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Perhaps they meant 16-hours driving?
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
dukepro Jul 31, 2014 8:08 AM (in response to kirash4)On 07/30/2014 01:11 PM, kirash4 wrote:
Perhaps they meant 16-hours driving?
Or perhaps a 16-hour difference in time and workday combination? About
the time his shop is closing the IT department is opening, thus putting
any response in the start of his next workday - 16 hours away.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
asj Jul 31, 2014 3:49 PM (in response to dukepro)AAh, sorry just how I tend to talk about timezones. They have a -16 hour time difference from us. Just as we're getting into the office they're heading home. (it's yesterday evening for them) End result is the same, we can't upgrade to v7. There is an alternative, the company is moving the Zueken, and this is going to push us that way. Their licensing is way worse, but it is supported by IT and they'll do what is needed to make it run.
This is the 2nd company I've brought eagle to. First purchased a v4 license (now v6), and I'm sad to see this come to an end. It feels like losing a friend.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kevinh Jul 27, 2014 6:40 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)Wow, thanks for this 'news'!
I used the hobby version just because many friends do/did. For business (very small) I looked at the professional versions, but found for the board area and layers I required Eagle was just too expensive, so even with my Eagle experience decided to opt for DesignSpark PCB which has absolutely no hassle regarding licensing.
I regularly move my designs between my laptop and desktops according to where I'm working and as the sole user feel this should be acceptable for a single user licence (think this was the old Borland analogy, treat it as a book, read it where you require, but don't copy it?), so now extremely pleased I made the right decision for me and invested the time to learn a new package.
Although DSPCB has some limitations for my manual layouts (I believe strongly this is the designers responsibility) I find I can achieve good designs efficiently and it is well suited to most users, both hobby and professional.
If I want more features then I'm not sure what software I would progress to, but it certainly will not now be Eagle!
Glad I wandered here to see what new features were incorporated in Eagle........
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
dougwJul 27, 2014 10:56 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)
I purchased Eagle Pro about 10 years ago after very carefully evaluating all the options - I was already proficient with most of the major CAD packages. I have not regretted the decision - Eagle is a great little CAd package and I have designed hundreds of PCBs with it. However its very success as a great little CAD package is pushing it to transition further away from the hobbiest and educational markets towards the mainstream industrial CAD market and all their associated infrastructure. This is a difficult transition in a competitive market and I don't pretend to understand why they feel this licensing policy is the best approach to meet their goals, but I'm sure they have reasons.
Unfortunately, this takes Eagle off its position as the #1 most desirable CAD package for users in my market segment.
Fortunately, I will be able to use version 6 to meet my needs for a few years before I need to make another careful choice.
As an aside, in this age of technology, where big brother knows your every move, it is easy to figure out how to track software usage without any draconian licensing policies and you don't even need to get involved in policing - every police force now has a software fraud squad.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
NF6X Jul 29, 2014 10:26 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)I started using Eagle on my Mac in 2010, and purchased Eagle Professional v5 with schematic, layout and autorouter. I use it for hobby purposes, but I use higher-end PCB CAD software at work in my day job, so I just felt too constrained by the limitations of the lower tiers of Eagle.
I then upgraded to Eagle Professional v6 in 2012. As I recall, that was a paid upgrade, and I happily upgraded due to the new features in v6.
Due to the licensing change in v7, not to mention the brain-dead removal of prior versions when installing v7, I will not be upgrading to v7. I'll continue using v6 for the time being, until I find a better alternative. KiCad is starting to look interesting. I clearly don't mind paying for good software, but I will not tolerate intrusive license management. Even if upgrading to v7 was free of charge, I would not upgrade due to its intrusive license management.
Of course, once I become satisfied with another tool, I won't be likely to switch back to Eagle even if they remove the intrusive licensing enforcement in some later version. Switching CAD systems is not a decision to be taken lightly, and it takes strong reasons to force an engineer to change tools. The licensing in v7 is a strong enough reason to cause me to drop Eagle and switch to another tool.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 29, 2014 12:26 PM (in response to NF6X)Due to the licensing change in v7, not to mention the brain-dead removal
of prior versions when installing v7, I will not be upgrading to v7.
Hi Mark,
Just a comment on the brain dead removal of prior versions on the Mac. I
wanted to update that I brought the issue to the attention of our
developers and we can confirm that the issue is with the software we use
to package EAGLE for the Mac. We will be updating this software soon, so
this will no longer be a problem.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
NF6X Jul 29, 2014 5:07 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Just a comment on the brain dead removal of prior versions on the Mac. I
wanted to update that I brought the issue to the attention of our
developers and we can confirm that the issue is with the software we use
to package EAGLE for the Mac. We will be updating this software soon, so
this will no longer be a problem.
Well, that's nice. It still doesn't address the primary issue I have with v7, which is the new licensing enforcement. This alone is enough to make me not consider using v7, even as a free upgrade. I want to make sure that CadSoft understands that they are losing my future revenue as an Eagle Professional customer due to this change.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Jul 30, 2014 10:43 AM (in response to NF6X)> Well, that's nice. It still doesn't address the primary issue I have
with v7, which is the new licensing enforcement. This alone is enough to
make me not consider using v7, even as a free upgrade. I want to make
sure that CadSoft understands that they are losing my future revenue as
an Eagle Professional customer due to this change.
Hi Mark,
Point taken, lets see what management decides to do with it.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Jul 30, 2014 12:50 PM (in response to SpacedCowboy)I guess v6.6.0 will be my last one as well. I use Eagle on two separate workstations as well as my laptop that I travel with. All of them are single instances, meaning I'm not running them at the same time. However, our machines do go through upgrades/replacements at least once a year (at different intervals) and to have to deal with hostids and what not each and every time, not to mention needing at least two licenses (since it's possible to install one license on two machines), it's just not worth it anymore. This was a bad move on CADSoft/Farnell and I wish them the best in the future. They lost another customer not to mention the many friends I've originally recommended Eagle to who are now also leaving.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
NF6X Jul 30, 2014 12:39 PM (in response to kirash4)kirash4 wrote:
They lost another customer not to mention the many friends I've originally recommended Eagle too who are now also leaving.
That's a good point. Not only will CadSoft lose my future revenue; there will also be the admittedly small effect that at some point my open-source hardware designs will be developed in some tool other than Eagle. While there's presently only a small handful of people who pay attention to my open hardware due to its niche application, I can imagine that if this licensing change induces other open hardware contributors to switch from Eagle to something else (most likely KiCad), that will have some impact upon which CAD tools new engineers will select based on their experiences with public projects from more experienced designers.
I get the impression that there has been a long rivalry between Eagle and KiCad at the low end of the PCB CAD spectrum. I believe that this change will inevitably tip the scales much more towards KiCad in that area. Perhaps CadSoft/Farnell have decided they don't care so much about the low-end, and want to go after higher end users? That won't fly, though, because Eagle isn't even close to being real competition to products from the like of Mentor, Cadence and Altium. The primary reason I picked Eagle Professional for my personal use vs. Mentor PADS that I use at work, is that I didn't want to use pirated software and PADS is priced way too high for a home user; even one like me who's willing to pay $1,500 for CAD software for hobby use. Oh, yeah, PADS also has obnoxious licensing enforcement that causes all of the expected headaches. But in terms of capability, there's no competition between PADS and Eagle. I wouldn't dream of using Eagle for the types of things I do at work, such as a recent 18-layer PCB with hundreds of multi-GHz impedance-matched diff pair nets.
I strongly feel that this is a foot-shooting move on CadSoft/Farnell's part.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 6, 2014 12:36 PM (in response to SpacedCowboy)Hello All,
In light of all of the issues of the new licensing mechanism, we have
decided to revert to our licensing scheme. There will no longer be a
requirement to use a HostID or FlexLM server.
Thank you all for your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 6, 2014 1:09 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Thank you for listening to your customers.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 6, 2014 2:47 PM (in response to kirash4)kirash4 prodded the keyboard
Thank you for listening to your customers.
I agree ! Its a nice change !
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
SpacedCowboy Aug 6, 2014 1:09 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Thankyou, much appreciated. I will now upgrade
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
NF6X Aug 6, 2014 1:29 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Thank you for listening to your customers! I will now consider upgrading to 7.0.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
dukepro Aug 6, 2014 2:56 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Jorge,
Excellent news, sir. Even though CadSoft is part of a much larger
company, I'm glad you still have a small company mentality that's not
too big or has too many management layers to listen. Thank you for
listening to your customers. I'm sure you'll find a solution for your
markets where piracy is suspected that doesn't adversely impact your
existing customers.
With great appreciation and kindest regards,
- Chuck
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 7, 2014 12:40 AM (in response to dukepro)Thank you! While I am a small fish in the pond, it gives me a warm fuzzy
for Cadsoft and I will be negotiating with the budget directory (AKA wife)
to upgrade my license soon.
mikey
--
Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca. Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 7, 2014 2:23 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Wife approved upgrade. Purchase has been made
mikey
--
Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca. Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
speltron.dk Aug 8, 2014 12:33 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)At the adress: http://www.cadsoftusa.com/lizenzierung/?language=en one can read following:
"The v7 License management system and user rights will be identical to those in EAGLE v6."
But later on the same page I can read this:
"Single licenses
The Host Identifier (HostID) will determine the specific computer that needs to be licensed. It is possible to use a single license on two computers; please determine the HostID for each computer. (Installation instructions below)"
Does this mean that IF (!!!) I upgrade to ver 7.1 I only can use it on two computeres ????
That is NOT identical to my possibilities in ver 6.
Is there something I have misunderstood ?
If not, I will NOT upgrade - but starting looking for another PCB-program - it really makes me sad :-((
(I used Eagle for more than 10 years - Standard, and the last years the Pro-version and have recommended Eagle to many people - in the future don't dare that - also I will look for other component-suppliers than Farnell - I really don't like such a way to handle customers :-((
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kirash4 Aug 8, 2014 12:32 PM (in response to speltron.dk)That may just be left over text that hasn't been removed yet. As Jorge Garcia stated above, "There will no longer be a requirement to use a HostID or FlexLM server."
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Aug 8, 2014 1:33 PM (in response to speltron.dk)But later on the same page I can read this:
"Single licenses
The Host Identifier (HostID) will determine the specific computer that
needs to be licensed. It is possible to use a single license on two
computers; please determine the HostID for each computer. (Installation
instructions below)"
Does this mean that IF (!!!) I upgrade to ver 7.1 I only can use it on
two computeres ????
That is NOT identical to my possibilities in ver 6.
Is there something I have misunderstood ?
That's just a hold over text, we'll be getting rid of it shortly. Sorry
about the confusion.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
KE5FX Aug 9, 2014 12:33 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Jorge Garcia wrote:
Hello All,
In light of all of the issues of the new licensing mechanism, we have
decided to revert to our licensing scheme. There will no longer be a
requirement to use a HostID or FlexLM server.
Thank you all for your feedback.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Great to hear that. You could still offer an optional server-based
license system for corporate users, but it never really made any sense
for single-user licenses.
-- john, KE5FX
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
rbtx99 Sep 13, 2015 1:35 PM (in response to SpacedCowboy)The licencing is the main reason I didn't upgrade past V5. I do fancy some of the new features and I was considering upgrading but not if I have to loose the flexibility of running EAGLE at work, home and laptop. Whilst Cadsoft may have prevented some licencing fraud in my case they lost both the V6 and V7 upgrades.
I like EAGLE and I will continue to use my v5 version as long as I can; then move to something else. KiCad perhaps. The good news is that the v5 runs on Windows 10 so I am not pressed to change and I can continue to maintain the old projects.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Sep 14, 2015 1:44 AM (in response to rbtx99)On 13/09/15 19:35, Angelos Gonias wrote:
The licencing is the main reason I didn't upgrade past V5.
Catch up at the back there!
This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license works
the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you
probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
rbtx99 Sep 14, 2015 3:22 AM (in response to Autodesk Guest)CadSoft Guest wrote:
This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license works
the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you
probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.
Well that is good news and tempting to do an update. But what do you mean about the options?
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Sep 14, 2015 11:39 AM (in response to rbtx99)On 14/09/15 09:22, rbtx99 wrote:
CadSoft Guest wrote:
This is an entirely obsolete issue. The current (main) V7 license
works
the same way as the V5 one did. Yes, there are new options that you
probably don't want, but you don't have to have them.
Well that is good news and tempting to do an update. But what do you
mean about the options?
V7 introduced some extra license types, now called "Make Pro" and "Make
Personal", that require Internet connections and such. Just ignore them.
The "standard" and "professional" licenses are the same as they always were.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Sep 14, 2015 4:22 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)V7 introduced some extra license types, now called "Make Pro" and "Make
Personal", that require Internet connections and such. Just ignore them.
The "standard" and "professional" licenses are the same as they always were.
Make Personal, is the Hobbyist renamed it doesn't require an internet
connection. The only real new thing is Make Pro, which has an area
limitation instead of the fixed dimensions we used to have. That's the
only real new thing.
Basically with Make Pro as long as your board is less than approx 24 sq
inches you'll be OK, you have flexible limits.
Everything else is just a rose by a different name.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
kedwa30 Sep 15, 2015 11:20 AM (in response to SpacedCowboy)I've read the first and last pages and so I understand the issue to be resolved with this particular product, but I had an idea that I just wanted to put out there.
"You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if you have a single user license."
What about the possibility of installing to a virtual machine? If that is allowed at all, then that could solve the problem since you'd be able to put the virtual machine file on a external drive or keep it in the cloud and boot it to any host machine you happen to have available.
Of course it's not an ideal solution since the virtual machine is always a fraction of the power of the bare metal machine. Technically it would only be installed to the one virtual machine which would only exist when it is booted. Another workaround is to use one of many programs that allows you to control a computer remotely. Of course that requires a network connection.
Someday the notion of having a single machine will be erased as home computers become made up of arrays of single board computers setup like a supercomputer. Rather than upgrade to a faster desktop, increasing compute power will be accomplished by adding boards to the array. Boards that go bad will simply be removed from the array.
When a person buys a product they expect to pay one time. When they buy a service or a subscription, that's different. If two people share three cars, they end up paying for six insurance policies, one per person per car. They don't expect to do the same with software.
It's not the same and should not be billed the same. Software is not insurance. If it was, then it should be regulated like insurance is regulated. Think about that.
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Sep 15, 2015 12:22 PM (in response to kedwa30)On 9/15/2015 12:20 PM, Kenneth Edwards wrote:
I've read the first and last pages and so I understand the issue to be
resolved with this particular product, but I had an idea that I just
wanted to put out there.
"You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if
you have a single user license."
Hi Kenneth,
I hope you're doing well. Again, this is obsolete information. We
removed that licensing mechanism one month after the release of V7 and
reverted back to our old system which allows users to install on as many
machines as they have.
These types of concerns are precisely why(thankfully) management made
the decision to back off on this licensing mechanism(I'm sure the
horrendous blow to sales helped a bit too
).
This entire thread is obsolete because we removed that very offensive
licensing scheme.
This is how things stand now 09/15/2015:
1. You may install EAGLE on as many machines as you own. As long as no
more than the number of licensed users are using EAGLE at any point in
time you are complying with the license.
Ex. If you have a 3 user license, you can install EAGLE on an infinite
number of machines as long as no more than 3 people are using EAGLE at
the same time everything is cool.
2. Licenses are assigned to a location. So for example if you have 3
offices around the world. Each one needs to have it's own license, this
enables the person responsible for the license at each location to
monitor the use of the licenses locally.
3. All of the updates within a major version are free.
Ex. We are now in V7. You will receive 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, etc. for no
additional cost. You use the same key file and installation code to
license each update.
4. Upgrades are not compulsory, users determine if they wish to upgrade
or not.
Ex. Once V8 is released, you have the option to continue using V7
without paying another cent. Keep in mind that development of a major
series stops once a new major version comes out so you will not receive
any new bugfixes or corrections(Unless it's something exceptional). The
other choice is to upgrade to V8 for an upgrade fee. The upgrade fee is
roughly 1/3 of your original purchase price.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
Cadsoft Support
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
goemon Sep 19, 2015 9:42 PM (in response to Autodesk Guest)Hello!
I have a problem right now. I was in version 7.3 (Mac). I have installed 7.4 which fortunately
installed without erasing 7.3. I have used the same license file (I always copy the license key
in the application folder, therefore it was in EAGLE-7.3.0) to the new 7.4 folder. As I keep my
license numbers and passwords in a text file also in the Eagle folder, I'm pretty sure it's the
same password as last time.
Result: it simply doesn't work.
I have tried to contact sales@cadsoftusa.com and it came back with an error.
Any hint about how to get a new password (if possible a working one)?
Thanks
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Re: New eagle licensing -> goodbye Eagle
Autodesk Guest Sep 21, 2015 2:48 PM (in response to goemon)Hi Pascal,
Just try contacting me directly support@cadsoftusa.com or
jorge@cadsoftusa.com. Make sure to include your serial number so that I
can forward the information to you.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
hth,
Jorge Garcia
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So, I've used Eagle now for over 10 years. In all that time I've always upgraded to the latest version, but that's just stopped.
I have multiple computers, and I use multiple locations. I've always only ever used one instance of Eagle at a time, and I've never given the license details to anyone else. Unfortunately, the latest way in which Eagle is licensed is way too restrictive for me to work with the product as I have done for over a decade now.
The problem is two-fold:
- You are only allowed to install on 2 (which is pitiful!) computers if you have a single user license.
- You cannot use a flexlm-based license for a single-user license.
The combination of those two things means I can't duplicate the setup I currently have, so this is the classic example of how proprietary software owners can screw you over without you having any recompense or workaround, despite you being a paying and loyal customer for an extended period of time. I don't consider cracking the software to be an adequate workaround.
So, if I'm going to have to spend $$$ in the thousands, I'll take a good look at the competition first, and even at the freebies like kikad. Eagle has major shortcomings anyway - no "bus routing" and the differential pair support is poor at best. I think, with this decision, cadsoft couldn't have done more to help along the freebies, and lose the people who might some day splash the cash and go for the pro option.
A primary rule for any software "upgrade" is "don't break the existing workflows". Eagle v7 is completely useless to me, not because of its feature-set, not because of any price issues, but because the management is being pants-on-head moronic about how it goes about licensing. Licensing, of all things.
Very disappointed.