35 Replies Latest reply on Feb 24, 2017 5:36 PM by clem57

    I want a CodeBug

      Not my finest post, but there it is: I wish I could get my hands on a CodeBug or two.

       

      Sagar

        • Re: I want a CodeBug
          michaelkellett

          I'm missing something here - why not order one from Farnell - worked for me.

          (although why you want one remains a mystery !)

           

          MK

          • Re: I want a CodeBug
            balearicdynamics

            Hi Sagar,

             

            strange question It seems there are a lot in stock (394 in this moment).

             

            Screen Shot 2015-09-17 at 09.34.50.png

            Instead me too want one and I have done a mistake so I can't buy From Spain there is a limit of 50 Euro min for buying. Just yesterday I have ordered two Raspi PI and another stuff... I was SURE I was forgetting something and it was. I forgot to order a codebug ! Result I can't buy it until the next big order.

             

            Enrico

              • Re: I want a CodeBug
                michaelkellett

                I bought one because it's just pocket money and I wanted to see which Microchip PIC it uses and if you actually got access to a schematic if you bought one (you don't unless things have changed since the weekend). This is weird (to put it kindly) since on the Kickstarter campaign they promised it would be open hardware. If I ever get round to it (it's not a priority) I'll trace out the circuit and work out how to gaol break the PIC. It has some test points that look as if they might give access to a PIC debug port - if so you could use usual Microchip tools to write some proper code.

                 

                I can't help thinking how much better the whole thing would be if they had used an ARM Cortex based micro with a decent amount of RAM (it has 2k) - it might have cost a tiny bit more but would have been so much more useful.

                 

                MK

                  • Re: I want a CodeBug
                    gregoryfenton

                    It's funny you saying that, I just made a post to their Facebook page asking for the schematics and source code for just that very reason.

                      • Re: I want a CodeBug
                        michaelkellett

                        I'll be very interested to hear how they respond.

                         

                        MK

                        • Re: I want a CodeBug
                          balearicdynamics

                          I checked now the Kickstarter page but seems that any reference to the open source / hardware has disappeared. There is instead a short list of what is the PIC microcontroller used and the device characteristics. Seems no more.

                           

                          Enrico

                            • Re: I want a CodeBug
                              michaelkellett

                              The reference is still there on this page - scroll down a long way to just under the Union flag.

                               

                              https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/922345933/codebug/description

                               

                              MK

                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                  balearicdynamics

                                  It should be interpreted. And I think that they played over this...

                                   

                                  CodeBug will be released under a Creative Commons license so everyone can remix and make their own bugs. If you've never done any circuit board design, don't worry, we'll even show you how you could do this too!

                                   

                                  By a licensing point of view, first of all it is not explained what kind of CC is used (there are at least three). For example: SA-NC-ND is ShareAlike, NoCommercial, NoDerivative. Means that you should use it as-is, can integrate in your project but as the license is threaded, your project itself can't be commercial. Instead of SA-$ means that you can create your own product also for commercial usage, and you should cite the device. In short words the CC licenses are progressively restrictive, from the simple CC-BY where you are obliged simply to mention the original attribution up to CC BY-NC-ND where you are obliged to mention the attribution, only for non commercial use and explicitly you can't make derivate products integrating the licensed device.

                                   

                                  In this scenario the CC license is not expressed at all without the specific version (actually the most used are 2.0 and 3.0) and without the licensing legal coverage in human readable form As a matter is like just to say "this is mine" nothing more. You can find all the license types and how the CC protection involves respect the protected opera in the following link: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/

                                   

                                  Then there is another aspect. The CC mentioned (that IMO remain senseless as it is expressed) does not mention implicitly nothing that we should expect from them but just only what we can't expect from them. In the case of a device (hardware) or software the CC is almost ineffective, as it has been though for the protection of operas like music, text, documents etc. To have effect should be accomplished by a licensing for software and hardware, separately. If they does not explicitly declare that the software is released under a specific software license (hopefully a open source one e.g. MIT, Apache, GNU etc.) and the same for hardware with a open hardware license, the only thing they say is "you can buy your unit, place it inside your project, as you prefer and enjoy.

                                   

                                  My conclusion is that if we want to know more on the internal architecture of the codebug the only way is to reverse-engineering it.

                                   

                                  Enrico

                                    • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                      michaelkellett

                                      I suspect that you are right and that the reference to CC in the Kickstarter was simply to attract support by implying community sharing without any intention of actually delivering. The PiFace crew (same as the CodeBug crew) have form with this - they don't publish schematics for the PiFace and have resisted requests to do so, although it is difficult to use these interface parts without detailed circuit information.

                                       

                                      However the statement

                                       

                                      "so everyone can remix and make their own bugs"

                                       

                                      is a clear promise and may be hard to wriggle out of.

                                       

                                      MK

                                        • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                          gregoryfenton

                                          I have no problems at all with reverse engineering the board, once I know the pinouts I don't need their frontend and will happily code onto the board directly.

                                           

                                          I would rather give them the opportunity to live up to their word, from the contact I have had with them already they are a very committed small team. They may even consider it a release of a burden by making the documentation available.

                                           

                                          Just wish they had a forum, however.

                                          • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                            shabaz

                                            Legally (and sadly) I suspect they know they can get away with this, although morally it is wrong. As far as I understand, in UK law, if you state something is "free" (or perhaps a "reward" in Kickstarter-world, then there is no obligation to deliver on it unless there is a contract that says otherwise (and that would need

                                            offer/acceptance and so on, including an exchange of (say) money). So they may be free to revoke it at any time : ( I've not looked at the contract though, which I'm guessing is between KS and the backers, not the project creator and the backers, but I have no idea to be honest : ( since KS appear to magically waive all their obligations once funds have been transferred.

                                              • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                codebug

                                                There's no attempt to not publish info on Code Bug intended -- we wanted to make sure every single kickstarter backer had received their bug before publishing info on the board etc. Unfortunately we're discovering shipping a few thousand bugs is slightly more involved than we expected. We're also interested when the BBC will release the schematics for their 'open-sourced' micro:bit which was inspired by Code Bug --  How the BBC micro:bit will kick-start a coding revolution (Wired UK)

                                                  • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                    balearicdynamics

                                                    To be honest, this sentence smells bad

                                                      • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                        shabaz

                                                        The "There is no attempt not to publish" bit? It is why I rarely support kickstarter campaigns - so many crowdfunding examples of

                                                        deadlines with no firm date, or vague promises that are not binding (or even if they are, in practice are not easily enforceable).

                                                         

                                                        There is another thread here Codebug partial teardown where someone has taken a not-insignificant attempt to reverse-engineer the board in the absence of schematics.

                                                          • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                            mcb1

                                                            I don't like you guys any more .....

                                                            After your postings I decided it would remiss of me not to have one to show the kids when we do the Arduino courses so I ordered one.

                                                             

                                                            Mark

                                                            • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                              codebug

                                                              Early on in really innovative projects there are many uncertainties, and Kickstarter is suited for these products. Kickstarter is about backers for a project -- people that want to support it's aims, and for CodeBug we're very grateful to these people for helping us;  it's not a contractual arrangement. I think it's important people realise this, and if people are uncomfortable with this it they can wait until the commercial version of products come out and not back Kickstarters.

                                                               

                                                              If we'd done it as a commercial project, the offering would be very different and probably not ultimately creative commons. And although the project has been delayed (though not as much as micro:bit The BBC micro:bit will, predictably, be delayed until 2016 (Wired UK)) we're really pleased through the help of our backers we've got Code Bugs out into the hands of people and they're learning to code with them, which is what the project was really about.

                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  gregoryfenton

                                                                  We aren't learning to code with them, we are learning to drag and drop with them.

                                                                   

                                                                  If we could edit the code manually it would be a step in the right direction.

                                                                   

                                                                  I never learned to program by dragging boxes around, even Arduino lets you get your fingers dirty. People soon outgrow the Arduino IDE and take the next logical step into proper IDEs using their acquired knowledge to learn a real high level language such as C.

                                                                   

                                                                  Your own book about the Raspberry Pi (which you kindly inscribed a message for my son) is based upon the ability to expand your knowledge so I know that you agree with and understand this sentiment.

                                                                   

                                                                  This was never meant as a personal thing against any of you, I truly believe that you will be releasing all the documentation in due course. I just can't wait.

                                                                   

                                                                  Could you give me one heads up though please, would you tell me which is which with regards to the connections to the LEDs, specifically which row and column goes to which port, and whether my teardown was close :)

                                                                   

                                                                  Greg

                                                                  • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                    shabaz

                                                                    codebug wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                      it's not a contractual arrangement.

                                                                     

                                                                    I think this is the point I was making. You're under no obligation (legally) to release the  schematics, although morally you should do so having made the promise.

                                                                     

                                                                    The unpredictability of Kickstarter project timelines, and promises unmet, and (often) poor excuses for delays, is why it is wise to wait for the commercial offering for at least the non-innovative projects, or to purchase a close-alternative product that is already available.

                                                                     

                                                                    I think a major difference between micro:bit and codebug is that the micro:bit project has not taken any funding from consumers expecting hardware and software to be supplied to them, whereas codebug has.


                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  shabaz

                                                                  I was wondering why the comparison of project delay with the micro:bit was brought up.

                                                                  This explains the relationship between the two projects a bit: How the BBC micro:bit will kick-start a coding revolution (Wired UK)

                                                                  About half-way down is a comment about the University of Manchester team's role (and the role of Andrew Robinson - creator

                                                                  of the Piface series of boards as I understand, which Problemchild had to reverse-engineer in order for effective support).

                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  gregoryfenton

                                                                  Hi Andrew

                                                                   

                                                                  Firstly, I am glad that uptake was enough to make it worthwhile for you (I hope).

                                                                  As the posting and packaging is done by hand, I can quite understand how much work it would be. Be glad the envelopes and stamps are self-adhesive and you don't have to lick them all

                                                                   

                                                                  My son will be one of the lucky ones to receive the BBC micro:bit, whenever (if ever!) the government follows through with the project. In the meantime he is going to be learning on the CodeBug and other hardware that I have in my stack of boxes of boards.

                                                                   

                                                                  I'd rather him be able to understand how he has got something working than be able to drag and drop like every other slightly trained drone the micro:bit craze will produce.

                                                                   

                                                                  As I stated above I don't doubt your veracity about opening the board and code in the slightest, there is just an undercurrent of frustration that we have boards that we can't do much with at the moment. They have massive potential, please don't kill the momentum while everybody is desperate to get to know them. Once they end up in a drawer I fear they will stay there, twinkling away with only odd socks for company which would be a crying shame.

                                                                   

                                                                  Stick everything on github now(!!) and watch these things take off

                                                                   

                                                                  Greg

                                                                  • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                    michaelkellett

                                                                    Thanks for responding - please just shove the stuff on to Github (or wherever) - the format and gloss don't matter at all but you have the chance to claim the moral high ground over the BBC - take it !!

                                                                     

                                                                    MK

                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  balearicdynamics

                                                                  Hi Michael,

                                                                   

                                                                  the promise is almost perverse Promise that you can use it with your things (you own them so you are authorised to use them ) and make your own bugs. That means "bugs" not "your own code bugs"

                                                                   

                                                                  Then there is a fact as you mention that this will be attracting without saying false. I frankly disagree this approach but it is. This promise is like "buy the car and you are TOTALLY free to drive it following your own destinations!" Nothing more. As me and my wife are editors, coming from Italy where there is a lobby about the music, video and text copyright we was the first few years ago to publish and distribute commercially a DVD doc CC SA-NC-BY So we are in contact with the CC group by years and have studied almost in depth how this CC licensing system works.

                                                                   

                                                                  Enrico

                                                            • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                              gregoryfenton

                                                              Look at the very top of the page. It's there.
                                                              "The cute, programmable, light-up wearable for everyone. An instant, fun intro to coding -- it's Creative Commons too!"

                                                              codebug creative commons.jpg

                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  shabaz

                                                                  Quite a few projects over the years have suffered from vanishing schematics/source code : (

                                                                  A few off the top of my head are a so-called open source spectrometer, and a network analyzer.

                                                                  Same with OpenPi, the "free design files" are not where they state them to be.

                                                                  Slightly unrelated (since they don't state that schematics/source will be supplied) is fpga4fun.com who

                                                                  sell effectively dev-boards/educational boards as closed source. It makes them useless in my

                                                                  opinion.

                                                                    • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                      michaelkellett

                                                                      It really bugs me !

                                                                       

                                                                      I don't mind at all if people make and sell proprietary stuff but I get mad about when they pretend that the motive is charitable or educational and apply a little "opensourcewash" to oil the wheels. The educational value of the RPi, Codebug, PiFace etc is massively reduced by the code and hardware secrecy.

                                                                       

                                                                      MK

                                                              • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                gregoryfenton

                                                                The debug port you mention does remind me of a Pickit port.

                                                              • Re: I want a CodeBug

                                                                You're lucky. In the US we're still awaiting delivery.

                                                                 

                                                                cb.jpg

                                                              • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                spannerspencer

                                                                Chance to win a CodeBug over the weekend, if anyone fancies one

                                                                 

                                                                CodeBuggin' Competition: Tweet to Win a CodeBug

                                                                • Re: I want a CodeBug
                                                                  clem57

                                                                  CodeBug – Creative Commons is this what you want on hardware side?

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