1 2 3 Previous Next 391 Replies Latest reply on Oct 24, 2017 5:33 PM by CadSoft Guest

    Eagle v8 licensing...

      Hi All --

       

      Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

       

      Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here> 

       

      WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

       

      Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

       

      Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

       

      "So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

       

      So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

       

      Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

       

      Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

       

      Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

       

      Best regards,

       

      Matt Berggren

      Director - Autodesk

      @technolomaniac

      hackaday.io/matt

        • 1. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
          CadSoft Guest

          Am 18.01.2017 um 20:26 schrieb Matt Berggren:

          Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.

           

          But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our

          machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

           

           

           

          • 2. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
            CadSoft Guest

            But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our

            machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

             

            Yep. I could live with this "subscription" model, when it would look like:

             

            You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as

            it was before with the old system.

             

            For each new release while still under subsciption, you can download a

            new license key/installation code.

             

            If you at any point decide to stop the subscription you keep the latest

            installation code/key and you can stay with this last version forever

            and also reinstall whenenver necessary.

             

            No server needed, no internet connection, just an account where you can

            download the latest license file/install code.

             

            I'm not going to let any company decide how long a software is going to

            run on my computer.

             

            I bought it I own it (the license).

             

            Markus

             

             

            • 3. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
              CadSoft Guest

              But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our

              machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

               

              Yep. I could live with this "subscription" model, when it would look like:

               

              You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as

              it was before with the old system.

               

              For each new release while still under subsciption, you can download a

              new license key/installation code.

               

              If you at any point decide to stop the subscription you keep the latest

              installation code/key and you can stay with this last version forever

              and also reinstall whenenver necessary.

               

              No server needed, no internet connection, just an account where you can

              download the latest license file/install code.

               

              I'm not going to let any company decide how long a software is going to

              run on my computer.

               

              I bought it I own it (the license).

               

              Markus

               

               

              • 4. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...

                Hi Markus -

                 

                Thanks for your reply...Let me take a swing at this:

                 

                • But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

                 

                Yes you do.  You have the freeware version and if you commit to the subscription version for some period of time (a month, a year), you will have all of the editing features enabled for all layers (whilst ensuring you get everything new that comes down the line like obstacle avoidance in routing, push and shove routing, better hierarchy, better design reuse, improved library editing, etc).  There's of course a quid pro quo:  just as you are subscribing to the product and betting on us, we need to be transparent about what we're adding and are incentivized or rather: obliged, to continue to deliver those capabilities which grow alongside the changing industry.  Point being, if you need to open a file, you always have the free version to fall back on.  If you need to edit, you only pay for what you need when you need it, and when you no longer need to, you can disable your subscription and save the single, monolithic price of a piece of perpetual SW.

                 

                • You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as it was before with the old system.

                 

                Not going to this model and I guess Im unclear just how would this model work with subscription anyway?  When it times out, you still dont have what you are trying to achieve which sounds like a perpetual license.

                 

                Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days, having moved away from an activation code both to protect their investment in new feature development, whilst making it easier for more people to gain access to new tools.  The fact is that the activation code model does little to ensure both the security of a license whilst incentivizing the company making the SW to continue to develop the tools (you buy it, you get what you bought...no guarantees for more, it's all based on trust whether they decide to release an 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, etc). 

                 

                We can scale development with honest revenues and the easiest way to achieve that is to make it easier for a user to get software and pay for it.  A single, monolithic price of $1650 is out of reach of many people with a commercial product vision, and having already enabled a 6-layer license for education for free, we can expect that this too is another way to get EAGLE into the hands of more people at a lower price point.  An example: if you look at a $500 / yr sub across the avg 3 year release cycle, the product cost came down $150...if you paid monthly and spend 6 months designing and 6 months going to market, then you end up with an even lower total cost of ownership!

                 

                     For each new release while still under subscription, you can download a

                     new license key/installation code.

                 

                     If you at any point decide to stop the subscription you keep the latest

                     installation code/key and you can stay with this last version forever

                     and also reinstall whenenver necessary.

                 

                And if you were on Monthly?  If you were on yearly?  Seems you are conflating the two models or maybe I'm unclear.

                 

                     No server needed, no internet connection, just an account where you can

                     download the latest license file/install code.

                 

                     I'm not going to let any company decide how long a software is going to

                     run on my computer.

                 

                In fact, that is precisely what you get with this model; it is more licensing flexibility rather than less.  Sure, you have to sign in.  But you never lose your right to view data.

                 

                Hope that is clear!

                 

                Best regards,

                 

                Matt

                Autodesk.

                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                • 5. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                  CadSoft Guest
                  • You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as it was before with the old system.

                   

                  Not going to this model and I guess Im unclear just how would this model work with subscription anyway?

                   

                  Yes monthly was not chosen very clever here. From the speed of

                  development in the history of CadSoft, I was used to spending ~500€

                  every 2-3 years or so on an update (we are a non-profit organisation).

                   

                  I got my license key/installation code and could install the product on

                  any machine in lab, office, laptop, homeoffice, wherever I need to have

                  it, fire it up, runs. (We have the required number of licenses)

                   

                  No Internet needed, FlexLM drama etc.

                   

                  If the computer goes bonkers, reinstall, put license key, works (doesn't

                  matter where. We do field campaigns on ships, rain forrest, whatever.

                  Internet not always available.).

                   

                  If I'm at some point unsatisfied with how the product evolves, I can

                  just stay at this revision, that most likely will still work fine for a

                  long time maybe even with the last operating system anyone will need

                  (Win10).

                   

                    When it times out, you still dont have what you are trying to achieve

                  which sounds like a perpetual license.

                   

                  I guess you are correct.

                   

                  Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days,

                   

                  Yes and that is exactly the reason why im still running Windows 7 and

                  Office 2010. Activate once, keeps running. If stuff breaks down in the

                  middle of nowhere its already getting tricky (I guess it runs 30 days

                  without being activated)

                   

                  having moved away from an activation code both to protect their investment in new feature development

                   

                  And who is protecting my investment in the product the last 15 years

                  by not offering a non-permanent license anymore? All my efforts I put

                  into libraries and such? I even paid for a V7 license to support the

                  development of the product and actually till today do my designs in V6.6.

                   

                  , whilst making it easier for more people to gain access to new tools.

                   

                  I still wait for the features promised to be in V7 already...

                   

                  The fact is that the activation code model does little to ensure both

                  the security of a license whilst incentivizing the company making the SW

                  to continue to develop the tools

                  (you buy it, you get what you bought...no guarantees for more, it's all

                  based on trust whether they decide to release an 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, etc).

                   

                  Yeah you buy it, but you own it at least. If you see at some point noone

                  is listening to the customer base and the features you lack are not

                  comeing, you just don't buy the next upgrade,

                  but you still have a functional Software and not a nice file viewer

                   

                  We can scale development with honest revenues and the easiest way to achieve that is to make it easier for a user to get software and pay for it.

                   

                  I still think the 1650 price tag is in the range of what competitors are

                  asking for their annual "subscription/maintenance" however you name it.

                  As written above, I can plan on spending a fixed amount over a certain

                  range.

                   

                  A single, monolithic price of $1650 is out of reach of many people with

                  a commercial product vision, and having already enabled a 6-layer

                  license for education for free,

                   

                  I didn't ask for a free 6 layer version, I was fine with the reduced

                  price for Educational use. I will not complain though. Just send

                  everyone that qualifies for it a free registration code and things are

                  fine

                   

                    we can expect that this too is another way to get EAGLE into the hands

                  of more people at a lower price point.

                  An example: if you look at a $500 / yr sub across the avg 3 year release

                  cycle, the product cost came down $150...

                  if you paid monthly and spend 6 months designing and 6 months going to

                  market, then you end up with an even lower total cost of ownership!

                   

                  As I said I have no problem with the pricing scheme as it was, I have a

                  problem with all this online login activation blahfoo and that I don't

                  have a fully functional, reinstallable software after subscription runs out.

                   

                  Why don't you combine both models and let the users decide? If the

                  software is installed via the classical method with

                  licensefile/installationcode it's possible and just works.

                   

                  If the user wants to upgrade to next major release, he pays the upgrade

                  price and its fine. If not he can be happy with his old version.

                   

                  And if one wants to rent the software because it's cheaper for his

                  purposes he can let EAGLE login to his autodesk subcription every 14

                  days and be happy too.

                   

                  I bet 90% of the community prefer the first scenario.

                   

                  And if you were on Monthly?  If you were on yearly?  Seems you are conflating the two models or maybe I'm unclear.

                   

                  Yeah I think more in "long term subscription" like a year or 3 years or so.

                   

                  In fact, that is precisely what you get with this model; it is more licensing flexibility rather than less.  Sure, you have to sign in.

                  But you never lose your right to view data.

                   

                  Yes but the right to work with the software

                   

                  Markus

                   

                  • 6. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                    e14candies

                    Of course it does take big money to pay good programmers/engineers and

                    staff, Autodesk has expenses to cover & they'd like to make more than bank

                    interest profit off of their investment--this revenue simply must be

                    supplied by Eagle users. 

                     

                    Here is part of an old 'net post regarding upgrades (From James Morrison):

                     

                    2)  And you can upgrade and only pay the difference (exception upgrade

                    from

                    light).  That fact alone will save $1000's if you have plans to scale.

                    CadSoft doesn't advertise this enough, IMHO.  Upgrades are a very minimum

                    cost.  The highest license cost $280 to upgrade to EAGLE 5.  A paid

                    upgrade

                    cycle is about 3 years.  Currently full new license is about $1500US.  So

                    all in all it is quite reasonable for what you get.

                     

                     

                    7)  Free support for life.  If you pay for a real license that includes

                    phone support.  And it's actually pretty good.  And an involved community

                    existed for further support.

                     

                    So for the current Eagle users who have already invested in Eagle over the

                    years, what will be their upgrade costs now?  Certainly a savings or

                    discount over those who have not been users. This code be implemented as a

                    one-time discount code--maybe that will spur some to stay on the ship. 

                     

                     

                    --

                    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

                     

                    • 7. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                      rick_b

                      Matt Berggren said in his blog:

                       

                       

                      "What about the $169, 6-Layer Make License?

                       

                      The $169 non-commercial Maker license lives on and will continue to live on

                      for the foreseeable future.  This is a great tool for people requiring that

                      extra bit of horsepower for their personal projects!"

                       

                      I purchased this last year with the expectation of upgrading to the next

                      major version, but I see no mention of it on the Autodesk website.

                       

                      Details please.

                      --

                      http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

                       

                      • 8. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                        CadSoft Guest

                        Hi Matt, so to be clear with V8 we are obtaining a new copy of the

                        software based on subscription that has nothing to do with the previous

                        versions we paid for or where those were installed and used as I don't

                        see the words upgrade used anywhere.

                         

                        I am a licensee of Unity3D. They too have gone the subscription route.

                        They offered existing PRO customers a 50% reduction in their yearly

                        subscription cost with an option to renew at that same price for a

                        second year.

                         

                        Will Autodesk be offering any incentives to keep their existing customers?

                         

                        Glenn

                         

                         

                        On 1/18/2017 2:26 PM, Matt Berggren wrote:

                        Hi All --

                         

                        Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

                         

                        Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here> 

                         

                        WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

                         

                        Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

                         

                        Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

                         

                        "So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a paid version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

                         

                        So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection except when you first install it (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  *in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req. * So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

                         

                        Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

                         

                        Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

                         

                        Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

                         

                        Best regards,

                         

                        Matt Berggren

                        Director - Autodesk

                        @technolomaniac

                        hackaday.io/matt

                         

                        --

                        To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

                        https://www.element14.com/community/message/213345

                         

                         

                         

                        • 9. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                          CadSoft Guest

                          Matt Berggren schrieb:

                           

                          Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription

                          OK, so EAGLE is dead. At least for me.

                           

                          You might however consider offering two alternative licensing models:

                          one as a subscription, and one for buying. (The latter should work as

                          before: you get a key, you own the software.)

                           

                          Tilmann

                           

                          • 10. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                            CadSoft Guest

                            Matt Berggren schrieb:

                             

                            Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days

                            Their subscription models are definitely keeping me from ever using that

                            software.

                             

                            Just because others are doing it wrong, it's not the right way.

                             

                            Tilmann

                             

                            • 11. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                              CadSoft Guest

                              On 19.01.2017 09:19, Tilmann Reh wrote:

                              Matt Berggren schrieb:

                               

                              Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription

                              OK, so EAGLE is dead. At least for me.

                               

                              You might however consider offering two alternative licensing models:

                              one as a subscription, and one for buying. (The latter should work as

                              before: you get a key, you own the software.)

                               

                              Tilmann

                               

                               

                              Yep, thats what I suggested. And for me also the only option.

                               

                              • 12. Re: Eagle v8 licensing...
                                rachaelp

                                Hi Matt,

                                 

                                I already had my most pressing concern answered to my satisfaction by Jorge which was relating to still being able to run EAGLE on multiple machines as I need to run it up across at least 3 different machines in my lab, but it seems I can still do that so all is good there.

                                 

                                If I was pressed on the subscription issue, I would say that I do much prefer to just buy the software outright, but if subscription is the only way from now on then so be it, I will deal. Having to activate the license with an Autodesk account isn't really something that will often be an issue for me as my machines are always on the internet but I can see why others my find this more problematic. I do understand why you are changing it, but I think it's a very sensitive subject for a lot of people though because of the debacle with the licensing when v7 was first released, so any changes in this area are going to come under a lot of scrutiny from the loyal EAGLE user base who stuck with CadSoft previously. I do wonder if it would be possible to satisfy the need for a permanent license which doesn't expire within your new licensing system though? How about the following as licensing options?

                                 

                                1) Free license. Activate initially and lasts forever. Upgrading to new versions would simply require a one time server activation each time they upgraded.

                                 

                                2) Monthly license. Activate at start of month. Software will run for 1 calendar month and then attempt to re-activate with the server. Autodesk account could be set up to either auto renew or a one off payment requiring a new purchase, this would ensure people didn't buy another month without realising they would be doing so, or forgetting to cancel a direct debit. This is one of my issues with monthly subscription software, it's easy to forget to cancel the subscription and that can be annoying. Upgrades to new versions will be accessible so long as a valid subscription still exists and as per free would require activating with the server.

                                 

                                3) 1/2/3 Year licenses. As per monthly but for longer periods of time. Full access to any upgrades within this period as per the monthly license. At the end of the 1/2/3 year period it could be possible to offer to either a) take out another subscription, b) cancel any direct debits (if a one was set up) and discontinue use, or c) Make an additional payment to convert the longer term fixed period licenses to permanent licenses so people could continue at their current version (or versions within the same release version) indefinitely. See below.

                                 

                                4) Permanent license. This would require activation once at initial setup and then run forever. Upgrades would be available within the same version, so if it were a v8 subscription then upgrades would be available for all v8 release versions. Updates would require activation as per the other licenses. The software must be accessible for download and installation and activation indefinitely to support peoples use of their permanent license. Updates to the next version e.g. v9 would be offered at an upgrade cost rather than the full cost, just like happens at the moment.

                                 

                                I think all of these could be covered by the Autodesk licensing system, hopefully without too much difficulty and without conflicting with the objectives of Autodesk, and I think they might satisfy most of what people would require. I don't think you'd have to have a strange hybrid of the old and new licensing systems within the one piece of software....

                                 

                                Best Regards,


                                Rachael

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                                  Joop14

                                  rachaelp wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 11:07

                                  4) Permanent license. This would require activation once at initial

                                  setup and then run forever. Upgrades would be available within the same

                                  version, so if it were a v8 subscription then upgrades would be available

                                  for all v8 release versions. Updates would require activation as per the

                                  other licenses. The software must be accessible for download and

                                  installation and activation indefinitely to support peoples use of their

                                  permanent license. Updates to the next version e.g. v9 would be offered

                                  at an upgrade cost rather than the full cost, just like happens at the

                                  moment.

                                   

                                   

                                  Not acceptable. The permanent license must work the same way like in older

                                  versions.

                                  No need to activate again when you replace your computer.

                                  What if they pull the plug from the activation server?

                                   

                                  The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

                                  absolutely NO REASON

                                  to change that. Anti-piracy motives are a joke. We will see how fast a

                                  pirated & patched copy will

                                  appear on the internet/torrents.

                                  As usual, the need for internet connection will bother legitimate users but

                                  will not stop piracy.

                                   

                                   

                                  --

                                  http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

                                   

                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Eagle v8 licensing.. .
                                    Justynb

                                    Matt Berggren wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 14:26

                                    WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the

                                    license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV

                                    star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example. 

                                     

                                    Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and

                                    alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the users

                                    we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their

                                    business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I

                                    can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all. 

                                    We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game

                                    developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that

                                    shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these

                                    categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a

                                    path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools'

                                    viability under this model.  Not helpful.

                                     

                                     

                                    Hi Matt,

                                     

                                    We don't know what will happen in the future with respect to licensing and

                                    activations for Eagle, and its overall direction.

                                     

                                    Don't forget that these were the same assurances that companies gave to

                                    people when they sold DRM'ed music files. After all, it's impossible that a

                                    company like Microsoft would ever shut down any of its authorisation

                                    servers? Remember what happened there?

                                     

                                    I've been using Eagle for more than a decade. Some folks on this list for

                                    twice that. On long timescales none of us, not even anyone at Autodesk, can

                                    predict how the CAD and business landscape will change, and priorities

                                    shift.

                                     

                                    I know you're trying to keep things lighthearted, but I'm concerned that

                                    with your talk of mountain bases and alien invasions that you don't truly

                                    grasp the probabilities and the stakes here.

                                     

                                    In the longer term there is the potential for Eagle to be replaced with

                                    another product, or Autodesk to run into serious difficulty (it can happen

                                    to ANY company. Remember Nokia? Yahoo? Autodesk is a small company by

                                    comparison).  There is also the potential for Eagle to stop supporting a

                                    particular platform, and so it becomes impossible activate even a

                                    previously released version of Eagle.

                                     

                                    In the shorter term there are very real risks associated with phone-home

                                    licensing. All of the following I have experienced with such schemes in the

                                    past:

                                     

                                    • Internet connectivity issues at my end

                                    • License server downtime

                                    • System changes my end that cause the license check to fail

                                     

                                    Now we may all have live with these risks and try to manage them as well as

                                    possible. But please understand that these are all real possibilities, with

                                    potentially serious consequences. They are not the preserve of people

                                    trecking to remote places. Indeed just visiting a factory can be a

                                    situation with limited connectivity and incredibly time-sensitive need to

                                    access board designs.

                                     

                                    Matt Berggren wrote on Wed, 18 January 2017 14:26

                                    So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to

                                    login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that,

                                    you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without

                                    connection. 

                                     

                                     

                                    This might seem like a trivial detail but I think it has big consequences.

                                     

                                    It is important that it be possible to use Eagle in at least read-only mode

                                    after installation without pinging Autodesk servers.

                                     

                                    As I've outlined above, there are plenty of possibilities, both short term

                                    temporary issues in the present, and potentially more permanent problems in

                                    the future, that may lead to Eagle not being being able to successfully

                                    authenticate (or update) after installation (or reinstallation, perhaps due

                                    to a software or system problem).

                                     

                                    Up until now we have had certainty that with a copy of the relevant Eagle

                                    installation binary and our license key, no matter what happens, including

                                    any temporary problems or bigger changes in the future, we will be able to

                                    open any designs we've created. Even if it means one day spinning up a

                                    virtual machine with an older OS for compatibility with an old Eagle

                                    version.

                                     

                                    The new scheme removes that confidence.

                                     

                                    Whilst this whole change is of course unwelcome, I would feel better if you

                                    could guarantee that Eagle will be able to fall back to being a reader NO

                                    MATTER WHAT, and no matter whether it has ever talked to Autodesk servers.

                                     

                                    You might feel that we sound like stubborn obsessives. I know that you are

                                    dedicated to making Eagle a success, and maybe you feel that you have

                                    staked your career on it. But for many of us running small businesses based

                                    on our hardware, we really do have our livelihoods tied up in these

                                    designs. Eagle might change direction and leave us behind, or you may move

                                    on to better things, but we will still need to know with complete certainty

                                    that we can access all our work, past and present.

                                     

                                    Can you help us out here with at least a guaranteed read-only fallback

                                    mode?

                                     

                                    Thanks.

                                     

                                    ps. Congratulations on the new features, they look great. I'm sorry so much

                                    focus is on this less pleasant topic, but it is honestly absolutely

                                    critical.

                                    --

                                    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

                                     

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