18 Replies Latest reply on Mar 14, 2018 6:55 AM by shabaz

    How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module

    rscasny

      Today I was approached about roadtesint this USB 3.0 I/O Module. so, I wanted to take a moment to introduce it to you, mention a few salient points, and ask the RoadTester group how they would roadtest it. Here goes:

       

      This is a 16-channel isolated digital input and output USB 3.0 I/O module. It has a built in USB hub that supports a daisy chain topology. All digital input and digital output channels are protected by 2,500 VDC isolation. A few other points are:

      • USB 3.0 SuperSpeed
      • Daisy chainable by built in USB hub
      • 16-ch digital input and 16-ch digital output with 2,500 VDC isolation
      • Wide input voltage range (10 ~ 30 VDC)
      • Wide output voltage range (5 ~ 40 VDC) and high output current (350 mA/ch)
      • Quick removable European type connector
      • LED indicators for I/O status
      • Supported operating systems: Windows XP/7/8/10 and Linux

       

       

      Would you be interested in RoadTesting this product? What would you like to test or build?

        • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
          hlipka

          Link to the module manufacturer: USB-5830 - 16-ch Isolated Digital Input and 16-ch Isolated Digital Output USB 3.0 I/O module - Advantech .

          They talk about being usable from Linux (which is what I would need), but provide only a Windows driver for download.

          3 of 3 people found this helpful
            • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
              rscasny

              Hi Hendrik,

               

              Thanks for the comment. I pointed this out to the supplier. They have sent me the Linux drivers. So, yes, you would be able to use it.

               

              Randall

              • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                rscasny

                Hendrik,

                 

                A clarification: the supplier told me they are developing linux drivers for these distributions:

                 

                • Ubuntu 12.04/14.04/15.10 (desktop).  kernel version 3.2/3.13/4.2
                • OpenSUSE Leap42.1, kernel version 4.1.12
                • Fedora 23, kernel version 4.2.3
                • Debian 8.3, kernel version 3.16.0
                • Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7.2, kernel version 3.10.0

                 

                Should there be any others to include?

                 

                Thanks

                 

                 

                Randall

                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                  • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                    hlipka

                    I cannot really comment on the other distributions, but the Ubuntu versions look really old. 12.04 is 6 years old by now, and AFAIK not maintained anymore for quite a while now. The list should at least include the latest stable version. This would be 16.04 by now, and 18.04 will be the next one - so it should be included as well.

                    For Debian, the current version is 9.3, so it 8.3 also looks quite old, and the Redhat version also seems to be quite old.

                    But does this mean there are no current drivers for Linux available? Because that would mean I would not need to think about applying for that road test (even when they exist I would hesitate given how I expect my available time in spring, but without drivers I do not plan further)

                      • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                        rscasny

                        Hendrik,

                         

                        I won't launch the roadtest without the Linux versions done.

                         

                        I contacted them and they want to write the following: Ubuntu 16.04 and Debian 9.3.

                         

                        Is that okay?

                         

                        Randall

                          • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                            hlipka

                            Hi rscasny,

                            now you're putting me into a difficult position... As much as I would like to test that module, I will not participate in road tests in the near future. I still have two to finish, have some projects of my own that  waiting to be finished for too long now, and my family would also like to see me now and then. Especially since testing this means going down the programming route (at least on Linux - on Windows I guess there is more software available to make this easier), so I think it will take several weeks of work. I also reckon that with the Linux driver being new there will be problems that cost additional time.

                            To answer your question: There is a good chance that these driver versions will work on more recent version of Ubuntu and Debian, but both are quite old. Since the drivers are new I would expect them to work at least with the latest long-term-support release - for Ubuntu this is 17.04 (with 18.04 coming up in two months). Its still worth a shot, Linux APIs are usually stable enough that it might work, but I would still consider such old drivers a risk.

                            • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                              mcb1

                              I won't launch the roadtest without the Linux versions done.

                              Given that we embrace Open Source and we like sharing here in the community, this sounds like a very good plan.

                              (not that I'll be entering).

                               

                               

                              Mark

                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                              • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                shabaz

                                Hi rscasny,

                                 

                                Interesting product! If this becomes a Roadtest then I'd apply to use it with Ubuntu Linux if Advantech are interested in this. For an example application, it could be used to control motors for a CNC machine. I have the CNC XY compound table compound table and some other bits and pieces, but I do not have an isolated interface designed - and this one seems like it could be an interesting solution for automation.

                        • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                          DAB

                          Interesting device.

                           

                          If I was able, I would use it to create a digital output stimulation device for industrial testing. 

                          The High speed capability would make it a good candidate for an automated digital testing station.

                           

                          DAB

                          2 of 2 people found this helpful
                          • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                            cghaba

                            I would use it as an I/O card to transform a small affordable computer such as Raspberry Pi or BeagleBone into a PLC by running a Soft PLC software.

                            • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                              ipv1

                              I am currently working in an industrial automation scenario where we are facing problems with electrical isolation. Back EMF from certain machines causes printers in the vicinity to reset and I am working on designing a USB HUB with optical isolation.

                               

                              I think this device may prove useful in situations where interference is a big problem and devices could benefit from electrical isolation.

                               

                              Just my two cents worth.

                              1 of 1 people found this helpful
                              • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                waelect

                                A different area that I work in a using PLC control systems via a computer system, but i am not privy to the sections works.

                                 

                                We are always looking a high voltage isolation and it is an integral part of the Research especially when the equipment is located in the Murchison Western Australia which is prone to some high static voltages flying all over the place. The only issue I think with the place I work is that they mostly use Fibre Optics to provide a really high level of isolation including RF over Fibre. I think USB 2 or 3 would not be used a lot.

                                 

                                My small project only uses USB 2.0 so not sure if could do anything, later i will be getting into Bluetooth communication after the power supply is complete.

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                  dougw

                                  The voltage capabilities of this module lend themselves well to automotive power.

                                  Modern smart phones have USB 3 and can manage multiple video sources.

                                  I'm thinking some complex system that runs off vehicle power where a smart phone is the logical choice for the brains of the system.

                                  For example a high-tech camping system that provides all the luxuries of home while out in the boonies.

                                  Power management would be a big application.

                                  If you had some solar panels, batteries, a weather station, lighting, heating, cooling, security a couple of dozen appliances and entertainment systems to manage and a nice app to automatically figure out how to optimally provide the services needed with the power available, a device like this would definitely be useful.

                                  I'm not actually designing something like this, just speculating if I ever get the resources to build a high-tech cottage....

                                  Maybe there would be good applications in a normal house if aspects of it are running off low voltage solar power.

                                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                  • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                    michaelkellett

                                    Well first off I would read the data sheet and learn:

                                     

                                    1) Supported operating systems are Windows XP/7/8/10

                                    2) The USB 3 thing is marketing hype - the opto isolator speed is quoted at 100us for the outputs only

                                    3) There is no rational spec of speed, no mention of round trip time, maximum input or output toggle rates, shortest detectable input event etc etc.

                                     

                                    Progressing to other stuff you find that the USB Driver needs the DaqNavi SDK (700Mb download) to make an application - never heard of this tool but it looks worryingly huge.

                                     

                                    So a Road Test should set out to find out how this thing van be used, what software is needed and how fast it can talk to code on a pC written in a standard language (like C, C++, Python) or a common one  like (C#, VB.net etc).

                                     

                                    If they offered a standard drive with documentation that explained how to hook it up to standard interfaces on a PC (ideally in Windows and Linux) that would be more use. For the versions with relay output or PhotoMos - both are slow) a virtual com port interface would do fine.

                                     

                                    The DAQNavi download is a 718Mb exe file which will presumably install some huge thing on my PC, or would if  I ran it (no chance).

                                     

                                    They have a web page:

                                     

                                    DAQNavi - Software Development Package for Advantech DAQ Products - Advantech

                                     

                                    So already we know that:

                                     

                                    we don't know how fast it is but it doesn't look very promising - if it could support 100MHz toggle rates I think they would have mentioned it

                                    there is a big software learning curve to get it to do anything useful

                                    once you've got there it needs drivers and other software horror to work, and needs a Windows PC host

                                     

                                    Since you can make or buy Ethernet based IO which is isolated, needs no drivers at all (talk by UDP or TCP), works with any OS etc etc I'm not tempted.

                                     

                                    Bias warning - I have designed both USB and Ethernet based industrial IO systems in the past and am currently active in that area.

                                     

                                    MK

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                                      • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                        dougw

                                        Presumably the USB speed is more important for its hub function rather than for digital I/O - to allow other high speed devices or a lot more devices.

                                        DAQNavi was road tested by ciorga - it looks decent.

                                        RoadTest the Advantech PCIE-1816 - Review

                                        2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                          • Re: How Would You RoadTest: Isolated Digital USB 3.0 I/O Module
                                            michaelkellett

                                            I'm sure you are right re. the USB3, but I did feel that they could have made the speed thing a lot clearer.

                                             

                                            Re. the DAQNavi, Cosmin didn't attempt to use it to help write any code to control his board, and of course the IO board here would be different.

                                             

                                            If any one takes this on it would be really nice if they would attempt to measure the round trip time (best case, worst case and jitter). That's the time from an event at an input being detected by the PC and an output changed in response. Normal USB struggles to do better than 4ms. Ethernet can do amazingly good responses (less than 50us using UDP and even better with non standard protocols), but it is let down a bit by huge variability, if the message must pass though switches and routers it might (easily) be 1000x slower.

                                             

                                            MK

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