24 Replies Latest reply on Jan 16, 2020 1:12 AM by Autodesk Guest

    Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?

    stevemann

      This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

      I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

      But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

       

        • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
          Autodesk Guest

          Am 10.01.2020 um 07:10 schrieb Stephen Mann:

          This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

           

          4-40 WHAT? Kilometers , inch, microns? One must know what you are

          talking about!

           

          I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

          But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

            

           

          --

          To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

          https://www.element14.com/community/message/287082

           

           

          In case it is a 4.4 mm (Milimeter) hole than you set the grid to mm.

          CHANGE Drill 4.4

          Place the hole.

          With INFO you can check that the drill is correct.

          With a new drill value you can click the existing hole to change it.

           

           

          --

          Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

           

          Joern Paschedag

           

          • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
            dukepro

            On 1/10/20 01:10, Stephen Mann wrote:

            This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

            I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

            But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

             

            You forgot the inches.  Your current grid is in mils (1/1000").  So when

            you asked for a 0.125 hole, it gave you one that's 0.125 mils in diameter.

             

               

            1. convert 0.125mil to mm.

                linux> units .125mil mm

                       

            • 0.003175

                        / 314.96063

             

             

             

            Try  HOLE 0.125" *+    You can use "in" for inches instead of the quote.

             

            Take a look at https://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/tapdrill.php.

            For a #4-40 screw, a close fit is 0.1160, a loose fit is 0.1285.  

            INCHES, of course.

             

            Joern,  The OP is referring to a standard screw size.  The "#4"

            represents the screw diameter, the "40" refers the number of threads per

            inch.  A #4-40 screw requires a 0.0820" (about 2mm) drill bit.

             

            HTH,

                - Chuck

             

            3 of 3 people found this helpful
              • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                Autodesk Guest

                On 13/01/2020 18:11, Chuck Huber wrote:

                A #4-40 screw requires a 0.0820" (about 2mm) drill bit.

                 

                 

                Is that for tapping? I thought they were roughly 3mm for clearance.

                 

                 

                • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                  Autodesk Guest

                  Am 13.01.2020 um 19:11 schrieb Chuck Huber:

                  On 1/10/20 01:10, Stephen Mann wrote:

                  This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

                  I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

                  But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

                   

                  You forgot the inches.  Your current grid is in mils (1/1000").  So when

                  you asked for a 0.125 hole, it gave you one that's 0.125 mils in diameter.

                   

                     

                  1. convert 0.125mil to mm.

                      linux> units .125mil mm

                              

                  • 0.003175

                               / 314.96063

                   

                   

                   

                  Try  HOLE 0.125" *+    You can use "in" for inches instead of the quote.

                   

                  Take a look at https://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/tapdrill.php.

                  For a #4-40 screw, a close fit is 0.1160, a loose fit is 0.1285. INCHES,

                  of course.

                   

                  Joern,  The OP is referring to a standard screw size.  The "#4"

                  represents the screw diameter, the "40" refers the number of threads per

                  inch.  A #4-40 screw requires a 0.0820" (about 2mm) drill bit.

                   

                  HTH,

                      - Chuck

                   

                  Hi Chuck,

                  IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even NASA.

                  I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2. wanted

                  to kick the OP to use precise information

                   

                  --

                  Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                   

                  Joern Paschedag

                   

                    • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                      dukepro

                      On 1/14/20 04:34, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                       

                      Hi Chuck,

                      IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even

                      NASA.

                      I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2.

                      wanted to kick the OP to use precise information

                       

                       

                      Yeah... After I posted, by client updated the thread, which is when I

                      found out that Rob had answered the question hours earlier.

                       

                      As far as standards go, it's good to hear that metric is fairly

                      pervasive in Europe.  It should be world wide.

                       

                      Back in the late 70's, the US mounted a government mandated conversion. 

                      Actually, I don't think "mandated" is the right word - it was more of a

                      strong recommendation.  This effort is where we got the 2-liter Coke

                      bottles and the 0.8-liter water bottles.  The drink industry adopted it

                      well, but overall the effort failed miserably.  After that, the slow

                      learners running our government figured out that this conversion was

                      going to have to be done on a voluntary basis.

                       

                      Metric IC packages remained on imperial units until surface mount took

                      off... mostly.  R's and C's are still referenced as 0603 or 0805 which

                      reference mils.  I am glad to see that these jelly beans are also being

                      referenced with their metric equivalents.  This divergence from metric

                      probably stems from the fact that resistors as small as 0402 were

                      available only to the military in the '50's.  At the time they were

                      classified - I don't know when they were declassified.  The textual

                      descriptions of R's and C's still contain the imperial sizes.  Eagle

                      libraries (as late as v7 contain) contain imperial sizes for these

                      components, further slowing the adoption of metric.

                       

                      I truly wish we would standardize on a single system of units on a

                      world-wide basis.  There have been too many mishaps because of these

                      differences.  I believe in NASA's case, it was the loss of the Mars

                      Orbiter in 1999 wherein the engine manufacturer provided the thrust of

                      the engine in pounds of thrust, when NASA used the same number as

                      Newtons of thrust, that caused NASA to force all suppliers to publish

                      specifications in SI units.  NASA started using SI units since at least

                      1990, and 9 years later nobody bothered to verify the units.

                       

                      The culinary industry hasn't even thought about it.  Every recipe my

                      wife has is measured in teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, pints, quarts,

                      degrees Farenheit...

                       

                      Aviation: Altitude is still measured in feet (pretty much world wide)

                      while temperature is measured in degrees Celsius.  The thrust of a jet

                      engine is still measured in pounds instead of Newtons, and weight of an

                      aircraft is measured in pounds instead of kg.  U.S. Government published

                      charts show runway length in feet.  Charts published by a private

                      company (Jeppesen/Boeing) have both feet and meters.

                       

                      But I digress.

                       

                      While I agree with you about what /should/ be done, I disagree with the

                      extent of deployment, at least in the US.  Imperial units are still very

                      pervasive in the consumer markets.  Sciences are being taught in SI

                      units, so that will help the young understand just how long a meter is,

                      and what a kg feels like when it's picked up.

                       

                      (BTW, I do have a 2 kg reference mass that I use for calibrating

                      scales.  And yes, it does weigh less closer to the equator (N = mg -

                      mv^2/r).  One must compensate for this based on latitude when calibrating.)

                       

                      It will be nice when we reach such a status...  One set of tools in the

                      garage.

                       

                      Best regards,

                          - Chuck

                       

                       

                      2 of 2 people found this helpful
                        • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                          Autodesk Guest

                          Am 14.01.2020 um 16:17 schrieb Chuck Huber:

                          On 1/14/20 04:34, Joern Paschedag wrote:

                           

                          Hi Chuck,

                          IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even

                          NASA.

                          I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2.

                          wanted to kick the OP to use precise information

                           

                           

                          Yeah... After I posted, by client updated the thread, which is when I

                          found out that Rob had answered the question hours earlier.

                           

                          So what. No sweat

                           

                          As far as standards go, it's good to hear that metric is fairly

                          pervasive in Europe.  It should be world wide.

                           

                           

                          Beleave me, I felt nearly unconsciousness when I heard (couple of years

                          ago) that the British changed to metric in TV, Documentation etc.

                           

                          Back in the late 70's, the US mounted a government mandated conversion. 

                          Actually, I don't think "mandated" is the right word - it was more of a

                          strong recommendation.  This effort is where we got the 2-liter Coke

                          bottles and the 0.8-liter water bottles.  The drink industry adopted it

                          well, but overall the effort failed miserably. After that, the slow

                          learners running our government figured out that this conversion was

                          going to have to be done on a voluntary basis.

                           

                          Metric IC packages remained on imperial units until surface mount took

                          off... mostly.  R's and C's are still referenced as 0603 or 0805 which

                          reference mils.  I am glad to see that these jelly beans are also being

                          referenced with their metric equivalents.  This divergence from metric

                          probably stems from the fact that resistors as small as 0402 were

                          available only to the military in the '50's. At the time they were

                          classified - I don't know when they were declassified.  The textual

                          descriptions of R's and C's still contain the imperial sizes.  Eagle

                          libraries (as late as v7 contain) contain imperial sizes for these

                          components, further slowing the adoption of metric.

                           

                          As you know in Eagle it's no problem it will be converted automatic.

                           

                          I truly wish we would standardize on a single system of units on a

                          world-wide basis.  There have been too many mishaps because of these

                          differences.  I believe in NASA's case, it was the loss of the Mars

                          Orbiter in 1999 wherein the engine manufacturer provided the thrust of

                          the engine in pounds of thrust, when NASA used the same number as

                          Newtons of thrust, that caused NASA to force all suppliers to publish

                          specifications in SI units.  NASA started using SI units since at least

                          1990, and 9 years later nobody bothered to verify the units.

                           

                          That would be funny if the loss wouldn't be so sad

                           

                          The culinary industry hasn't even thought about it.  Every recipe my

                          wife has is measured in teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, pints, quarts,

                          degrees Farenheit...

                           

                          Aviation: Altitude is still measured in feet (pretty much world wide)

                          while temperature is measured in degrees Celsius.  The thrust of a jet

                          engine is still measured in pounds instead of Newtons, and weight of an

                          aircraft is measured in pounds instead of kg.  U.S. Government published

                          charts show runway length in feet.  Charts published by a private

                          company (Jeppesen/Boeing) have both feet and meters.

                           

                           

                          I had a pilot license and if I estimate an altitude I do it in feet

                          still today...

                           

                          But I digress.

                           

                          While I agree with you about what /should/ be done, I disagree with the

                          extent of deployment, at least in the US.  Imperial units are still very

                          pervasive in the consumer markets.  Sciences are being taught in SI

                          units, so that will help the young understand just how long a meter is,

                          and what a kg feels like when it's picked up.

                           

                          (BTW, I do have a 2 kg reference mass that I use for calibrating

                          scales.  And yes, it does weigh less closer to the equator (N = mg -

                          mv^2/r).  One must compensate for this based on latitude when calibrating.)

                           

                           

                          Well that depends on the  tolerances one allows...

                           

                          It will be nice when we reach such a status...  One set of tools in the

                          garage.

                           

                          Best regards,

                              - Chuck

                           

                           

                          Was verrrry nice to hear from you

                           

                          --

                          Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                           

                          Joern Paschedag

                           

                          • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                            stevemann

                            OP here.

                            Back in the 70's I was installing brain scanners in hospitals around the US. The company was all metric which I really learned to love. (Metric, not the company).

                             

                            While I would love to be all metric here, American 4-40 screws are a fraction of the price for 3mm screws.  In our common home improvement stores a package of ten 3mmx10mm machine screws cost as much as fifty #4-40 screws.  If I go to a hardware store, the differential is even larger.  I did buy some metric hardware online, but the shipping cost wiped out any savings. Worse, 3mm is the smallest they stock.

                             

                            So, yes, my question was quite precise, even if our Country's measurements aren't.

                             

                            And in reply to the anonymous poster who said: "The built-in help is quite good on most of this, as is the PDF manual."

                            Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery.

                             

                            The built-in help does not tell me that the unit is my grid units, or that I can put the units in my hole command.

                            The only example is ambiguous: "

                            HOLE 0.20 •

                            If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

                            Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size. I am still learning.

                            The PDF manual has a single line to explain the hole command: "Define a mounting hole (not plated-through).", but no examples that I could find.

                             

                            But, I really do appreciate the prompt suggestions.

                             

                            Steve

                              • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                Autodesk Guest

                                Am 14.01.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Stephen Mann:

                                OP here.

                                Back in the 70's I was installing brain scanners in hospitals around the US. The company was all metric which I really learned to love. (Metric, not the company).

                                 

                                While I would love to be all metric here, American 4-40 screws are a fraction of the price for 3mm screws.  In our common home improvement stores a package of ten 3mmx10mm machine screws cost as much as fifty #4-40 screws.  If I go to a hardware store, the differential is even larger.  I did buy some metric hardware online, but the shipping cost wiped out any savings. Worse, 3mm is the smallest they stock.

                                 

                                So, yes, my question was quite precise, even if our Country's measurements aren't.

                                 

                                 

                                In my eyes it was not. If  there is no description it is just a number

                                of nothing (even if it is well known in a special job).

                                 

                                A similar thing (in articles and forums i.e.) is the use of

                                abbreviations without explaining what is meant.

                                 

                                In some earlier days it said:"Massachusetts Institute of Technology"

                                with the abbreviation (MIT) .

                                 

                                During the article the abbreviation was used but everybody knew what was

                                meant.

                                 

                                Nowadays some just write the abbreviation alone  but check out for what

                                MIT alone may stand also.

                                 

                                Here are your own words:

                                "Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery".

                                 

                                And in reply to the anonymous poster who said: "The built-in help is quite good on most of this, as is the PDF manual."

                                 

                                There are no anonymous posters. The problem is the element14 interface

                                with the newsreader. Appendages and other things  are not transmitted.

                                 

                                Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery.

                                 

                                The built-in help does not tell me that the unit is my grid units, or that I can put the units in my hole command.

                                The only example is ambiguous: "

                                HOLE 0.20 •

                                If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

                                Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size. I am still learning.

                                The PDF manual has a single line to explain the hole command: "Define a mounting hole (not plated-through).", but no examples that I could find.

                                 

                                But, I really do appreciate the prompt suggestions.

                                 

                                Steve

                                 

                                --

                                To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

                                https://www.element14.com/community/message/287201

                                 

                                 

                                Don't worry if you don't find the answer in the "Help". The eagle

                                community is always willing to help.

                                 

                                --

                                Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

                                 

                                Joern Paschedag

                                 

                                • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                  Autodesk Guest

                                  Am 14.01.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Stephen Mann:

                                  If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

                                  Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size.

                                   

                                  That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

                                  EAGLE is a German product).

                                   

                                  In the German version of the manual this sentence is

                                  'Falls die eingestellte Maßeinheit "Inch" ist, hat das Hole einen

                                  Durchmesser von 0.20 Zoll.'

                                  which I would translate to

                                  'If the unit is currently set to "inch", the hole will have a diameter

                                  of 0.20 inch.'

                                   

                                  In German there is a word "aktuell", which sounds similar to "actual",

                                  but most of the times translates to "current"/"currently" (false friend).

                                   

                                  HTH

                                  Markus

                                   

                                    • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                      stevemann

                                      autodeskguest  wrote:

                                       

                                      That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

                                      EAGLE is a German product).

                                      Markus

                                       

                                      Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

                                       

                                      But, growing up in this moronic Imperial system of inches and pounds, a 4-40 screw is remarkably normal and generally needs no further definition. To be honest, I still don't know how to describe an American Standard 4-40 screw any other way.  (In hindsight, I should have gotten my calipers and measured the hole size I want in proper units and this hole (sic) thread would be much shorter.

                                        • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                          omega-5

                                          Am 15.01.2020 um 15:55 schrieb Stephen Mann:

                                            wrote:

                                           

                                          That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

                                          EAGLE is a German product).

                                          Markus

                                           

                                          Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

                                           

                                          But, growing up in this moronic Imperial system of inches and pounds, a 4-40 screw is remarkably normal and generally needs no further definition. To be honest, I still don't know how to describe an American Standard 4-40 screw any other way.  (In hindsight, I should have gotten my calipers and measured the hole size I want in proper units and this hole (sic) thread would be much shorter.

                                           

                                          --

                                          To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

                                          https://www.element14.com/community/message/287184

                                           

                                           

                                          4-40 is not the full name for the screw thread.

                                          It should be UNC 4-40.

                                           

                                          The UNC thread (Unified Coarse Thread Series) is the American

                                          coarse thread. It has a flank angle of 60 ° and is measured in

                                          inches. ... The corresponding fine thread is known as a UNF

                                          thread (Unified National Fine Thread Series).

                                           

                                           

                                          Freundliche Grüße / Kind regards

                                          Friedrich

                                          -


                                          ... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a

                                          functional news reader like Thunderbird!

                                           

                                          • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                            omega-5

                                            Am 15.01.2020 um 15:55 schrieb Stephen Mann:

                                            Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

                                             

                                            Long, long time ago

                                             

                                            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAGLE_(program)

                                             

                                             

                                            Freundliche Grüße / Kind regards

                                            Friedrich

                                            -


                                            ... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a

                                            functional news reader like Thunderbird!

                                        • Re: Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?
                                          dukepro

                                          On 1/14/20 15:03, Stephen Mann wrote:

                                          So, yes, my question was quite precise, even if our Country's measurements aren't.

                                           

                                          True, at least to an American.  I immediately recognized that "4-40" was

                                          a SAE screw size.  However, one must also consider the audience.  In

                                          this case, it's pretty much world wide, with emphasis on Europe and

                                          North America.  I've seen posts from other countries, to be sure.

                                           

                                          The built-in help does not tell me that the unit is my grid units,

                                           

                                          Well, to be precise, the /default/ unit is whatever your grid units

                                          are.  Linear units assume the grid units unless specified otherwise.

                                           

                                          or that I can put the units in my hole command.

                                           

                                          Any command that accepts a linear dimension also accepts a unit. 

                                          Furthermore, coordinates can be in mixed units:

                                           

                                          hole 0.125"   (1.0" 25.4mm);

                                           

                                          I'll leave it to you to find the hole.

                                           

                                          But, I really do appreciate the prompt suggestions.

                                           

                                          Glad to help out.

                                           

                                              - Chuck