32 Replies Latest reply on Jan 23, 2021 7:44 AM by koudelad

    Are you a points hound?

    dougw

      Some members like the points system, some don't. Some think it is useful or meaningful, some don't. Some think the points totals are misleading or open to abuse.

      I think it has a useful place as an additional dimension to the forum for those that like points, although I think the meaning of the points totals is different for different members.

      It is a bit like the topics of religion or politics - you won't change anybody else's opinion by arguing that your opinion is right, so I am trying to stay away from too many opinions in this discussion.

      I kind of like fooling around with statistics (how weird is that) and since I am not really able to do projects right now, I thought I would look at the points system and see where it takes me.

      The point of the points system would seem to be to get more of them, although there is not much of a defined reward for getting more. Still there are lots of members accumulating lots of points.

      There are some limits in the system to combat abuse, for example you can only check 10 "Like"s and 10 "Helpful"s per day, giving you a max of 150 points a day from those actions.

      I click on "Like" for most things I read on the forum because it always provides points to the author who made the effort to write the blog, even though I only get points for 10 of those clicks per day.

      If you login every day and max out Likes and Helpfuls every day, you would get 1120 points per week or 58400 points per year. This is hard to do consistently every day and it would take quite  a lot of time and effort every day. I know I don't max out these points every day, even though I read almost everything that gets published on the forum.

      Of course you also get points for creating content and when members 'Like" your content and there are no limits on these points.

      It is possible to get over 2000 points per week, but you need to create content if you want to get those high point numbers.

      I kind of like getting points because it indicates I am participating more on the forum, but I don't like passing other members' point totals because it somehow feels like you are out to beat someone at the points game, even though it is not billed as a contest. Fortunately I am past that problem now. Only Shabaz has more points than me and he is in no danger of being passed anytime soon, especially since I will likely be on a slower pace going forward.

      I don't track points so I don't know how many I get each week, but it is possible to compute an average since I became a member by dividing my current total by the number of weeks of membership. This comes out over 1300 points per week, but I am sure it is significantly higher in the last few years, since I was not as active in the first few years. I'm also sure Shabaz could say the same thing. His average is a bit lower because he started earlier than me, but when he turns on his contribution afterburners, he outstrips everyone.

      I didn't set out to accumulate some number of points and I wouldn't have predicted that I would get this many, so if you want a lot of points, just keep plugging away and then suddenly you look up and you have a large number.

      I had to do a big search for this, but if you are really interested in the points system, here is a link to what points are available:

      Your Ranking: element14 Community Badges, Levels & Points

      Click on the "Points for Activities" tab.

        • Re: Are you a points hound?
          andrewj

          I’m not fussed on points but they accumulate anyway - I certainly don’t engage just to get the points if that makes sense.  Mostly I’m unaware they are even there until something happens such as a “positive acclaim” message when someone bookmarks a post.

           

          Now If you could just like this response and mark it helpful, it may push me into Level 8

          6 of 6 people found this helpful
          • Re: Are you a points hound?
            14rhb

            Always a good discussion and I'm sure you'll be able to get us some good stats while you are getting better.

             

            To answer your question, I was very keen to gain points when I first joined. Seeing my level go up was very exciting and I admit undertaking a couple of big-point badges with glee! Then the level milestones started to pace out and I stopped watching it - I only know where I am on the points because I sometimes use "reputation and Points" as a way to ensure inbox and activity are up to date i.e. I haven't ignored someones helpful comment. And on that note, just like you, I use the 'like' to indicate I have read something (both for the author and for myself when working out where I got to in a large thread) and the 'helpful'...well for just that. Although the 'like' sometimes seems inapproapriate for the subject, for instance when someone is explaining a serious life issue or if a minor online arguement occurs. I don't ration dishing them out in anyway and I must easily hit that limit you mention.

             

            You are correct though for anyone wanting to build points up in that content and constructive discussion can generate many points. For instance a good roadtest review will attract much discussion. And the more you have the more chance that someone likes those in the future or starts the discussion up again! So years on you still get points for something you wrote if someone links or discusses it. If I were to mention Cyber Chicklet again today that would probably give you another 5 or 10 points

             

            Personally the points and position is fairly trivial to me, not that I would want to see them go as I like being a 'Hertz'. However there are more important things to think about than whether I go up one or down one in the ranking, like getting that online editor to work

            1 of 1 people found this helpful
            • Re: Are you a points hound?
              ajcc

              I've earned the bulk of my points from doing the quizzes, learning essentials and community participation badges (logging in on Holiday specials, Round up and Review, etc). For things like that I think the points award system is great! If there isn't one already, I wish there was one for attending a seminar when you had marked yourself as attending. But I can see how that would be very difficult to implement in practice. I'd also love to see a badge for when your blog gets shared on social media, maybe a 50 point gold star for excellent content?

               

              Filling up your daily quota of points for liking things is easy and happens almost every day, but I'm less keen on marking comments as helpful just for points. Because I think the helpful comment marker is great for highlighting comments and letting others find them. So for that reason alone I don't think it's very helpful to mark everything as helpful. Although when I'm going through the comments on a learning essential module that's been out for a few months or a couple of years, I usually end up with a lot of points from liking comments and marking them as helpful. Now you could argue either way whether it's a helpful thing to do or just a good way to gain more points, in this case I'd argue it's fair since it does encourage more constructive comments and it's not a help forum.

               

              To get to level 7 I did try to find badges that weren't listed in the missions list, although I think I only found two. In hindsight while it was fun to find them, I don't think that claiming "stale" badges was a very helpful contribution. So I can understand why people are very exited and start hunting points just before the next level, being guilty of doing this myself. But as DAB says: Participation is the key for getting points.

              4 of 4 people found this helpful
                • Re: Are you a points hound?
                  dougw

                  Yes, I am happy to give a Like to reward the author's effort, but I only click Helpful if I think the content is helpful to other members.

                  If you want to scrounge points though, simply creating a little discussion like this one will easily net more points than a daily quota of Likes and Helpfuls.

                • Re: Are you a points hound?
                  kmikemoo

                  dougw  I like the point system.  I play it - and laugh at myself for indulging my OCD.   There is no way that I max out my points each day.  I grab the low hanging fruit by doing what most have indicated - I used the Like to indicate that I've read a post.  The @mention gives points, but I use that to make it easier for the intended recipient to know the replay is for them.  I also use a persons name in reply emails to make it easier to read through the thread - just in case it gets long.

                   

                  I subscribe to the belief that points indicate engagement.  I had a log-in for years before I really took any time to explore the Community.  And then one day... I woke up and discovered something very cool.  I don't mourn the lost opportunity because the Community is willing to share their knowledge.  I haven't missed out - only delayed - my learning.

                   

                  Again, I find great humor in the fact that the person ahead of me in the ranking is thousands of points away and the person above them... tens of thousands.  And yet I can't help but look.  In my little world, I'm the only one in the race.  The others don't know or care - and yet I race. Silly me.  I even wonder, "Will I lighten up once I get to that next level?" - and laugh.  My mental image of myself is Mr. Bean in the remake of Rat Race.  "I'm winning!!" - and then his narcolepsy kicks in.

                  1 of 1 people found this helpful
                    • Re: Are you a points hound?
                      dougw

                      kmikemoo The main reason for the points system to exist is for members to play it and enjoy it. I'm glad some members do like it.

                      I like your colorful concept of being the only one in the race and I can relate to it. Anytime I set a challenge for myself, it could be described that way.

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                    • Re: Are you a points hound?
                      dwinhold

                      I guess the point of the points is not to point out your points to other point collectors. Sooner or later your points make a point that could make other point collectors, "point envy". Just don't point your finger at other point collectors to make your point, there is not point to that. I like the point system, it's not pointless. I do like the badges better, they point out what you accomplished.

                      I made my point (I think),

                       

                      Dale

                      3 of 3 people found this helpful
                      • Re: Are you a points hound?
                        Jan Cumps

                        6 years of likes and tags

                        • Re: Are you a points hound?
                          jw0752

                          Getting old and at times a bit forgetful I use the "Like" to mark that I have read and reviewed a particular post. Sometimes an interesting post will come up and I will immediately click the "Like" If the counter goes up I know I haven't seen it before. If the counter goes down I know I have already passed this way.

                           

                          John

                          2 of 2 people found this helpful
                            • Re: Are you a points hound?
                              ajcc

                              jw0752  wrote:

                               

                              Getting old and at times a bit forgetful I use the "Like" to mark that I have read and reviewed a particular post. Sometimes an interesting post will come up and I will immediately click the "Like" If the counter goes up I know I haven't seen it before. If the counter goes down I know I have already passed this way.

                               

                              John

                              kmikemoo also mentioned using the "Like" to mark a post as read, so maybe they could make it clearer than you've liked something? The counter is also how I notice if I unlike something by accident.

                              • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                dougw

                                I just look at the the "Like" text. If it says "Liked", then I have checked it already, if it says "Like" then I haven't checked it yet.

                                I do use the "Liked" indicator to flag that I have taken an Essentials test. Before using the "Like" flag, I used to sometimes re-take an Essentials course without realizing I had already done it.

                                How is that for forgetfulness....

                                1 of 1 people found this helpful
                              • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                fmilburn

                                I admit to peeking at my points from time to time, but not as much anymore. Most rewarding to me are the comments that others make on my posts, even more so than likes.  That is where I find out if my efforts are interesting or useful to others and why, as well as ideas on how to improve my projects. I give likes anytime I enjoy or learn something new on someone’s post or when I feel they made a good effort although sometimes I might forget.  I think the points do give a rough idea of engagement and can be useful as John says when looking to see whether I’ve seen something before or not. I’m getting forgetful too :-)

                                3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                  14rhb

                                  Reading this thread I've already said I use plenty of likes and helpfuls.....I don't often use "Helpful - No". I think mainly because nearly everyone is helpful or trying to be. However I sometimes post advice which I think would help a member but a much more knowledgeable member later posts better advice or overrules what I've said....others do the same. I think mostly in the comments following that is picked up on and so anyone reading that thread would be guided.

                                   

                                  Perhaps we are mainly too polite to click the Helpful-No. I know I'd be reluctant to as I don't know the mechanism behind it and would not want to upset another member needlessly - in the IT world such a issue could be drawn out. Obviously if you spoke to that person face-to-face the issue is so much easier e.g. in passing "Hi Pete, I read your report the other day and I think you may have misinterpreted the data you mention. I suggest looking it over and if you want I'll pop into your office this afternoon and help".....usually means Pete later thanks you for picking up the issue, end of issue.

                                   

                                  If anyone want's feel free to mark this as Not Helpful and I'll report back on the effect e.g. if I got notified or if all my points get hoovered up and transfered to your account instead

                                  1 of 2 people found this helpful
                                    • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                      ajcc

                                      14rhb I think the not helpful thing is just a counter, there are no points awarded for it. And I think you can only see it if someone else mark it as helpful, so I marked your post as not helpful just to prove that point.

                                      3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                        • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                          14rhb

                                          Thank you ajcc for doing that. You are right, there is nothing in my inbox to say someone said it wasn't helpful nor can I see anything above on my post. Do you think it takes one count off the helpful side? I've if you had one helpful and someone clicks unhelpful it drops back to show nothing?

                                           

                                          As you've stepped in to help, I'll use your post above if I may and try this out myself...please don't be offended

                                            • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                              14rhb

                                              I need someone else to mark your post as helpful.

                                               

                                              Currently it has nothing so if I click helpful you get a 1 helpful and it goes green. If I click unhelpful that counetr of 1 drops back to nothing and it shows NO in red.

                                               

                                              OK - I didn't realise they were counters both up and down, I thought they kept track of both...hence why I never say a 'not helpful' in my years on Element14....maybe I'm not as clever as I thought (or lets blame age again )

                                              2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                              • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                                ajcc

                                                14rhb Go for it! It's all in the good spirit of exploration. When someone marks your post as helpful it will say: 1 of 2 people found this helpful, so yes it does take one count off.

                                                2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                  • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                                    14rhb

                                                    Thank you for your patience explaining what is effectively so simple! 

                                                     

                                                    I'll try and use it where I see someone being given advice that I feel is incorrect, but I'd follow it up with a comment anyway. It might help if someone were reading the thread through and followed instructions, found they didn't work and then discovered further down in the thread the poster had retracted or ammended their advice.

                                                    1 of 1 people found this helpful
                                            • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                              Fred27

                                              I think the point system works well. I must admit that in the very early stages of my membership I thought "Ooh - clicking a few more likes and I'll get to level 2". I'm sure many people do. The almost exponential gaps between levels as you go up means that after a while this would be tedious and pointless. That's about when you realise that just creating worthwhile content is the gift that keeps giving back. When I take a peek at my point now, I'll often find that the activity bit is filled with recent likes and helpfuls - often from content I created a while ago. In this sense, it seems the points system works to engage users whether they're in the early stages of point hunting or have grown into the site and using it properly.

                                              3 of 3 people found this helpful
                                              • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                                andrewj

                                                165 points to go

                                                • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                                  DAB

                                                  I have never been a point hound.

                                                  I believe in providing positive feedback to encourage people to do more.

                                                   

                                                  DAB

                                                  2 of 2 people found this helpful
                                                  • Re: Are you a points hound?
                                                    koudelad

                                                    In my opinion the point system gives you an idea of user's participation. But there are no real benefits in having high score, so the pure point collectors loose interest anyway. You don't get a better job, more skills without work, free components etc. The point system could get misused easily in case it would provide something in return - free stuff, access to some restricted areas etc.

                                                     

                                                    The first few levels might be fun, but if you see a top member with a million points, you get the idea it would take you years to get there. This has also been proven in psychology that you loose interest in "chasing" someone being miles away.

                                                     

                                                    Anyway the element14 community is a friendly place where people stay when they want to ask something, help the others or share something they built or find useful. This makes the point system pointless. The "post something and make as many people as possible like it" system doesn't apply here and doesn't work generally - Facebook and Instagram recently realized that constant comparing to other members just creates depression and this leads to more comparing in an endless spiral. That is why they experiment with hiding likes - the users than tend to share only what they find useful, not what they want to be liked.

                                                    3 of 3 people found this helpful